Virtue of the Sword

[Darth Roley]

If you are truly training with a warrior spirit I don't think you have to go out looking for someone to fight and kill.
In fact most of the people I know who would fit even you're definition of warrior abhor, fighting and killing.

It is not really the killing that makes a person a warrior in my book. It is the willingness to take on a job where there is a great chance they could be killed that makes a warrior. That is what the folks in Iraq do that the folks just going to a gym do not. It does not matter if they are a medic dodging bullets, the willingness to put themselves in harms way elevates them far above what most of us do.

So yes, they may abhor fighting and killing. And no one really wants to die. But they do it because it has to be done.

[Darth Roley]

First and foremost I don't mean for any of this to be sarcastic or disrespectful. I want to put that out there because I know how some things are taken on this form.

I'm going to address this first, because I think it is more important.

You are saying that people who want to learn Japanese Sword, have to first learn the language and live in Japan?

There are so few qualified teachers outside of Japan that it pretty much is a requirement in my book to be teaching Japanese sword. In 20 years that may change. There are teachers that have lived in Japan and learned the art before moving back and teaching in America and the UK. However, they tend to be low profile and not so flashy and get drowned out by the hucksters. I figure that not even one in a hundred people claiming to teach kenjutsu in America have even basic qualifications. If you have no experience, it is really hard to tell the good stuff from the bad.

Even worse is the fact that there is so much misinformation and fantasy stuff that is considered fact that you really need to go back to the source to separate the fact from the fiction. I hope that changes as well, but I see people trying to define what the samurai were and their arts by what they want it to be rather than the actual reality.

There are many fine arts out there that are not Japanese and many people who are good at combat that never went near anything more Japanese than a sushi counter. I am talking about building up your image of a warrior samurai and their art when you have the baggage most people do in terms of preconceived notions.

[kingoftheforest]

Taliban where just regular guys first then they got a cause.

That is perhaps why I have problems with folks talking about the samurai and their arts as an ideal when they can't even read a newspaper in Japanese or have lived in the country. I don't mind fantasy and fiction, but you have to know when you are dealing with it.

First and foremost I don't mean for any of this to be sarcastic or disrespectful. I want to put that out there because I know how some things are taken on this form.

I'm going to address this first, because I think it is more important.

You are saying that people who want to learn Japanese Sword, have to first learn the language and live in Japan?

I may be wrong but I'm reading a little narrow mindedness here.

Most people don't have the time or aptitude to learn another language. Contrary to what you are taught as a kid, not everybody can do everything.

Frankly my personal o pinon is that Martial Arts and learning to fight in general is hindered by this attitude.

Traditionalism plays a huge part in ruining MA's for people.
How bout we go back to the basics K.I.S.S.
Bottom line it, don't give me a silly costume and a dance.
I don't care how you poor my f*cking tea, long as it's hot.
Saying you have to live in a place to learn about the culture, so you can learn an MA from that place is a little short sighted for my taste.
Try learning Chinese? Or just put that time into training the actual MA?




If you are truly training with a warrior spirit I don't think you have to go out looking for someone to fight and kill.
In fact most of the people I know who would fit even you're definition of warrior abhor, fighting and killing.

I know been there done that's who don't think your idea of a warrior is the only kind.

Most of them carry respect for anyone who practices a credible MA. If you train with the idea and intent that what you do will protect you and your family, then I think in some small way you carry a warrior spirit.

[Darth Roley]

Because you aren't on a battlefield fighting for someone else's ideals, and fighting the way someone else dictates you should, then you are not a warrior?

Basically yeah.

If you look up the definition of warrior in most dictionaries you will find that waging war is part of the requirement. You could extend the definition a bit to where people could be police and still be warriors. But just doing the best you can for society is not really being a warrior. That is to not take away from what people do, it is just that unless there is risk there seems to be no way to equate what the folks in Iraq do with the actions.

And of course, being a warrior does not equal being a good person. Some of the Taliban fighting us in Afghanistan show a lot of courage while they fight our guys. There are stories of some of them getting their guts shot open, scooping those guts up and holding them in as they keep fighting. But these are also the guys that throw acid in young girls' faces for daring to go to school.

The term warrior has really been abused by a lot of folks trying to sell the image. It sometimes leads to an almost cult- like subculture. And the things that irritates me is that a lot of what people think about being warriors like the samurai come from more fiction than fact. That is perhaps why I have problems with folks talking about the samurai and their arts as an ideal when they can't even read a newspaper in Japanese or have lived in the country. I don't mind fantasy and fiction, but you have to know when you are dealing with it.

[kingoftheforest]

So you are saying that if you aren't out killing or fighting people on a daily basis, then you cannot in any way shape or form consider yourself a warrior?


Because you aren't on a battlefield fighting for someone else's ideals, and fighting the way someone else dictates you should, then you are not a warrior?


I still think you are missing the whole point of the article. Possibly because you don't like the writer.

[Darth Roley]

And I think it's rather Ironic that someone with Darth in their name is telling people that any other person lives in a fantasy world.

I rarely take myself too seriously.

I gathered more about learning to think for yourself, lose you ego, and contribute better as a human being to other human beings, from these articles, more than I got........

"I am an awesome swords man!" from them.

So why is the title about the sword?

And of course, my point is that there really is nothing you can get from swordsmanship that leads to these admirable qualities anymore than studying the tea ceremony.

The whole talk about warriorship is what really sets my teeth on edge.

Besides the latest few CIC's of the US had no combat expierence, yet they sent people to war.

What gives them the right? Or virtue?

I don't mind that. It is the whole idea of selling the idea that people can be warriors if they study the sword. I study it and find value in its study. But talking as if people were modern day samurai when they are customer service representatives that go to the occasional seminar and wear funny pajamas cheapens the sacrifice that people in places like Iraq make.

[kingoftheforest]

I think the main intent of this thread is being side tracked by people arguing over who's a better more qualified swordsmen.


The ideas conveyed don't necessarily have to be strictly associated with swords.


And I think it's rather Ironic that someone with Darth in their name is telling people that any other person lives in a fantasy world.


I gathered more about learning to think for yourself, lose you ego, and contribute better as a human being to other human beings, from these articles, more than I got........

"I am an awesome swords man!" from them.



Besides the latest few CIC's of the US had no combat expierence, yet they sent people to war.

What gives them the right? Or virtue?

[Darth Roley]

ROFLMMFAO. OK Darth, I let you bury yourself as many ways as you could, now allow me to show you've never handled a sword in your life.

"Maybe a few Japanese swordmakers let him sell their stuff."

WOW, you've really got NO idea about Mr Williams or the men who allow him to sell their swords, you should have done SOME research before attempting to slam one of the most respected men in the field.

Look up Rex Applegate, Biddle, and the USMC for starters, ALL are on record stating that training with the live blade is THE most efficient way to instill the warrior spirit.

Countless veterans who survived h2h combat during WWII and Nam reported that the few hours of live bayonet training they received was the single most beneficial thing that helped them to survive the hand to hand combat.

Many many recognized vetted proven warriors have stated what James did...ANYONE who has ever done live blade training is familiar with the changes it creates in you, you obviously have no idea what is being discussed because you've never handled a real sword in your life...much less surpassed the widely recognized skills of James.

You are fishing and have yet to show what sort of qualifications Williams has with classical kenjutsu.

BTW I guess you're also calling Sensei Don Angier a liar since he states he trained and granted James the authority to teach. Show us ONE other person anywhere who makes the claims you do...one willing to show his face, and his skill.

That is news to me, and he does not list it on his site. Are you sure about this?

In any case, Angier is not a classical swordsman. Whatever background he had, his sword stuff is not classical, but modern. So if you are talking about a link to the past through sword, you can't find it. Kuroda is classical, but he lives in Japan and has only been out to the states about twice I think.

Oh, and maybe you would like to try to answer that little question I posed to you.

[TTEscrima]

Maybe a few Japanese swordmakers let him sell their stuff. That does not mean they consider him a decent swordman. Walk into a typical sword store or antique store in Japan and you are lucky to find someone who studies the art at all behind the counter. I think only about a third of the people that make swords in Japan have any experience with traditional sword arts. So with that being the case, why would anyone think that because Williams sells swords it means he is a great swordsman?

Listen, instead of your typical attacks try to tell me how swinging around a piece of sharpened metal makes you anymore of a better person than someone who studies the tea ceremony or Scottish Dance. I have studied sword and I can tell you it does not make you a warrior. If you want to be a warrior, you need to choose a job that risks getting your tender pink butt shot off in the service of a higher cause.

I respect the guys that work all night on the street so that I can sleep safely in my bed. I respect the guys that are serving in Afghanistan and Iraq and call them warriors. But going to a martial arts studio a few times a week does not make you a warrior and those that talk most about being one impress me the least.

ROFLMMFAO. OK Darth, I let you bury yourself as many ways as you could, now allow me to show you've never handled a sword in your life.

"Maybe a few Japanese swordmakers let him sell their stuff."

WOW, you've really got NO idea about Mr Williams or the men who allow him to sell their swords, you should have done SOME research before attempting to slam one of the most respected men in the field.

Look up Rex Applegate, Biddle, and the USMC for starters, ALL are on record stating that training with the live blade is THE most efficient way to instill the warrior spirit.

Countless veterans who survived h2h combat during WWII and Nam reported that the few hours of live bayonet training they received was the single most beneficial thing that helped them to survive the hand to hand combat.

Many many recognized vetted proven warriors have stated what James did...ANYONE who has ever done live blade training is familiar with the changes it creates in you, you obviously have no idea what is being discussed because you've never handled a real sword in your life...much less surpassed the widely recognized skills of James.

BTW I guess you're also calling Sensei Don Angier a liar since he states he trained and granted James the authority to teach. Show us ONE other person anywhere who makes the claims you do...one willing to show his face, and his skill.

[Darth Roley]

So now its just swords you're more experienced in than the people who James deals with eh? So you're more experienced than the finest makers of the Japanese sword alive today? Because those men value James opinions, designs, test cutting and even allow him to sell their handmade pieces that cost 10's of thousands of dollars from his site...and they are available nowhere else except through James, again I call bullshit.

Maybe a few Japanese swordmakers let him sell their stuff. That does not mean they consider him a decent swordman. Walk into a typical sword store or antique store in Japan and you are lucky to find someone who studies the art at all behind the counter. I think only about a third of the people that make swords in Japan have any experience with traditional sword arts. So with that being the case, why would anyone think that because Williams sells swords it means he is a great swordsman?

Listen, instead of your typical attacks try to tell me how swinging around a piece of sharpened metal makes you anymore of a better person than someone who studies the tea ceremony or Scottish Dance. I have studied sword and I can tell you it does not make you a warrior. If you want to be a warrior, you need to choose a job that risks getting your tender pink butt shot off in the service of a higher cause.

I respect the guys that work all night on the street so that I can sleep safely in my bed. I respect the guys that are serving in Afghanistan and Iraq and call them warriors. But going to a martial arts studio a few times a week does not make you a warrior and those that talk most about being one impress me the least.

[TTEscrima]

If we are talking about the subject of this thread (swords), yes.

As I said, Williams is a fairly good huckster. I could probably learn a lot from him about marketing, networking and advertising if I was interested in that sort of thing.

But this piece he wrote seems to be aimed at those guys who go to the studio a few times a week and touch themselves while watching "Roadhouse."

So now its just swords you're more experienced in than the people who James deals with eh? So you're more experienced than the finest makers of the Japanese sword alive today? Because those men value James opinions, designs, test cutting and even allow him to sell their handmade pieces that cost 10's of thousands of dollars from his site...and they are available nowhere else except through James, again I call bullshit.

All of James videos are easy to find as are the legions of people who swear by him (including the men who taught him).

You're just a net ninja (literally lol) talking shit from the shadows without ANYTHING to back you up.

EVERYTHING you claimed about James was easily shown to be a lie you obviously know nothing about him or his training, but you really are a super ninja and your skill shows James to be fraud... and lets not forget you surpassed him after 6 months of training.

I think Gecko45 has reemerged folks.

[Darth Roley]

LOL. Thats an argument from authority If I've ever heard one.

So you're more experienced than the instructors form the various elite SF and LEO tactical units units from around the world (including Japan) who have contracts with James eh?

If we are talking about the subject of this thread (swords), yes.

As I said, Williams is a fairly good huckster. I could probably learn a lot from him about marketing, networking and advertising if I was interested in that sort of thing.

As it is, I would not go to train with someone who decided he knew enough about swordsmanship to start his own style despite the fact that no one else ever let him teach an existing one.

But this piece he wrote seems to be aimed at those guys who go to the studio a few times a week and touch themselves while watching "Roadhouse."

[Tokyo Kid]

I don't think Darth Roley was trying to say he was better than Williams with a sword (well' not exactly). That wasn't the point of his post. You might want to go back and re-read it before you continue the cut-and-paste tirade, TT.

Or maybe Darth Roley could "dumb it down" a bit for our more "challenged" posters.

[TTEscrima]

. I happen to have had a bit more experience and would not pay the amount your friends would.

LOL. Thats an argument from authority If I've ever heard one.

So you're more experienced than the instructors form the various elite SF and LEO tactical units units from around the world (including Japan) who have contracts with James eh?

Bullshit.

Pm me your info, I'll put you in touch with some of them through a private forum, whether you want the money or not, anyone with your level of skill and experience would jump at the chance to contribute and share info with men of their caliber.

[Darth Roley]

Actually nothing you said is valid because none of it is true. You obviously know nothing about him yet you expect your opinion to be worth listening to.

So where is his license to teach sword? Before I thought I was qualified to start my own art like kenjutsu I would at least want someone else to say I was skilled enough in their system to teach it.

I'm still waiting on video of you that's going to put what James does to shame, since you're "licensed" to teach, lets see what you can do.

Maybe I will get around to it. But showing off and self promotion is not really my thing.

Talk is cheap, very cheap, we've seen James with a sword, lets see you...or is it against your Ninja training? We will understand if you have to perform your cuts in your Ninja garb to protect your secret Ninja identity...We're all waiting Darth Ninja.

Actually, I do kenjutsu in a hakama most of the time. And most of my stuff with a sword comes from something outside of the Bujinkan.

I know at least a dozen people who pay BIG bucks to travel and train with James, show me how much more awesome you are after your 6 months of training and I'll have a list of students in 24 hours ready to pay you what they pay James.

Actually, considering what passes for sword arts in America I can understand why people with your level of experience would be willing to pay that kind of money. I happen to have had a bit more experience and would not pay the amount your friends would.