reiki healing

[Thai Bri]

Like you say, but for hand to hand and me there would have been no debate and no "useful" information.

So we accept your thanks.

[Mulan]

Like you say, but for hand to hand and me there would have been no debate and no "useful" information.

So we accept your thanks.

Well, that's all fine. But you could say "I've tried it and it didn't work for me" or something equally relevant. And, if you haven't tried it, it's not your place to diss it. Trashing something with no backing just makes you look like an asshole.

[Mulan]

Well i've never tried eating shit becasue i thought that it would make me live for every, but i dare say that it wouldn't work. You dont necessarily have to expierence something to know it doesnt work, or its a load of crap. Many times its self evident.

Can you elaborate on how the ineffectiveness of holistic healing is self-evident given the fact that numerous studies confirm there is a link between the mind and body, between prayer (a kind of energy healing) and rate of recovery, and given the many cases of spontaneous healing that doctors can't explain?

[Thai Bri]

Theres numerous studies that "prove" the existence of ghosts, alien abductions, out of body experiences and the Loch Ness Monster. No doubt you believe in all of those too!

Come on Little Demon! Help her out! She's so similar to you I'm thinking of adopting her as a sister for you!

[Hikage]

H2H, Thai Bri,

I've got a lot or respect for the both of you, but I must inform the both of you that your ignorance is causing you to miss out on something here. Reiki works folks. I've seen it. And no, H2h, it woulnd't cure your back wound. That's not what it's for. It's more designed towards internal injuries and ailments. I.E. there's one instance where someone was walking along the grand canyon and was stung by a bee. As luck would have it, they were seriously allergic and w/o the bee kit. To make a long story short. Using reiki, they were able to save this guys life (I realize that this sounds cheesy).
As to why most of it doesn't work for many so called reiki mastes... To make a really long story short, those that are in it for money aren't going to have the correct mindset going in to it.

I'm not going to insult you further by telling you story after story of things I've heard people say and what I've read. Let me tell you of what I've seen, then I'll let you change your minds if you want to or, which is more likely, remain as you are ... I don't care.

My instructor holds a 3rd degree in Reiki (that's as high as you can get, it doesn't go to 10 as in MA), which means he can give it to others, although I myself have no rank in it. There's a number of weird stuff that I've seen him do with it, but this one is probably the weirdest. While I was still a green belt (everyone in ninjitsu is a green belt until black), I was practicing my wrist locks with another beginner. As we tend to do, I was without control and actually broke the guys wrist. No bones broke the surface of the skin, but it was clearly broken judging by the odd angle at which it hung. Soke sat down with him off to the side by a tree, held it in his hands for about 10 mins, and occaisonally would shake it gently up and down, left and right. When he was done, not only was it fine, but he was able to continue on with practice (although he did give that wrist the rest of the class off). That's the short of it.

-Hikage

[Mulan]

Theres numerous studies that "prove" the existence of ghosts, alien abductions, out of body experiences and the Loch Ness Monster. No doubt you believe in all of those too!

If there were legitimate studies that proved the existence of ghosts, alien abductions, or out of body experience, I'd believe those too. The facts are out there, and it is no accident that conventional medical and psychological therapists are increasingly adopting those facets of traditional/alternative medicine that obviously work (certain medicinal herbs, meditation, visualization, positive mindset, rhythmic breathing, relaxation, etc).

I dont know but i wouldnt supprise me. Besides you seam to want to convince us of the fact that this wholistic healing crap works so the burden of proof is upon you. We dont care about convincing you its just fun to make fun of this crap.

Actually I'm stating documented facts. It is documented fact that placebos work, that positive mindset and a friendly environment significantly improves recovery of the physical body, that there are miraculous recoveries out there that doctors can not explain, and that it has even been shown that praying for somebody could speed up their recovery. People used to pass it off as crap, but it is now known that feeling happy and relaxed strengthens the immune system while being depressed significantly weakens it. There are logical explanations for the rationale behind many traditional medicinal practices that can be documented scientifically.

HandtoHand, you yourself admitted earlier that such things affect recovery for certain illnesses, so I dunno why you suddenly declare all of it bullshit now. The facts I presented do not prove the effectiveness of energy healing, and I never said they did, they merely prove that a person's recovery involves more than just the treatment of their physical body. As such, I don't see any grounds for saying that supplementing physical therapy with mental/emotional/spiritual therapy (body+mind=holistic) is self-evidently ineffectual. I'm not saying traditional medicine is perfect or infallible, I'm just saying it's onto something important that conventional Western medicine is currently missing. I see it as something that should be (and is being) studied more closely because it could potentially improve modern medicine.

Now, I believe it works... because it has worked for me and because it has worked for people I personally know... but I wouldn't dream of pointing to those things as objective proof to convince anybody else. I'll just continue using it because it works for me.

[Thai Bri]

Mulan, my naive little daughter.... Look a the world as a whole. Not just the bits oyu want to see. For every study that proves something, there is another that proves the opposite.

[Mulan]

Mulan, my naive little daughter.... Look a the world as a whole. Not just the bits oyu want to see. For every study that proves something, there is another that proves the opposite.

That quote goes both ways, so I'm not sure what you're trying to imply. You ask for evidence and then when somebody gives you evidence you say "yeah? well that doesn't prove anything." If you're going with that argument, then you might as well say that nothing can be proven since there will always be studies disproving it. But that's not how science works. You need results that can be replicated by anyone in order to show evidence for something. This has already been achieved.

Raise your hand if you don't believe in a basic link between the mind and body, it'd only prove the point. The mind can tell the body what to do and affects how it behaves. It can tell it to raise its hand, change its breathing patterns, or ajust its heartrate. Automatic processes (breathing, heartrate, etc) do not require conscious mental commands to work, but they can be altered through conscious mental commands. This is not instant proof that anything to do with a mind-body connection works, it is just pointing to the fact that there is potential there that can be explored. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Being positive/optimistic strengthens immune system and helps it both prevent and fight sickness much more efficiently than when we are negative/pessimistic. Hope, confidence, and faith has been shown to help in recovery. This does not prove any religion, it just shows that this kind of mindset affects the body in a way that allows it to heal faster. The bottom line is, treating both the mind and body together allows us to recover faster and more efficiently than treating either the mind or body alone. Why is this so contraversial? It's just common sense. You can say it's bullshit, but that won't change the fact that legitimate scientists are seriously exploring this very real connection.

I said that state of mind affects certain minor things but major things it doesnt.

And that's valid enough. The logical scientific question to ask next is "why can it affect 'minor' things and not 'major' things? what are the fundamental differences? what is stopping it? can the obstacle be removed and/or can the limits be adjusted?" If they can't, they can't; if they can, they can... but we won't know until it is intelligently studied.

[Mulan]

The only thing that i can assume is that being negative all the time or hatin takes alot more energy than looking at things postivly and lovin, although you can love everybody, thus leaving more energy for your body to heal. Obviously when things hit a sever point a little bit more or less energy has little effect.

Well, hating might take energy, but I would say it takes about as much energy as loving. As for being negative, I think for most people it's much easier to be negative than positive... it just comes natural to them, they don't consciously think about it. This is especially true when you've just been diagnosed with some disease or if you're having a hard time at work. And really, if you want to talk energy usage, it takes energy to be either positive or negative. But what the research shows is that the experimental group (the ones consciously focussing on being positive, being treated both mentally and physically) has a statistically significant faster rate of recovery than the control group (the ones that are neutral, not consciously trying to be positive or negative, only treated physically), and an even more significant faster rate of recovery than an alternate experimental group (the ones being negative). So, it's not about energy waste at all, it's about what kind of energy you're using.

[Thai Bri]

Yes. I do believe in a basic link between the mind and body. Its like if someone is horrendously injured. The more you convince them that it isn't too bad, the better chance they have. But the more they see how bad it is, the more chance they can spiral downwards.

My Grand parents lived together for more than 60 years, and then died within 4 weeks of each other. I don't think it is a coincidence.

To be honest I know nothing about Reik healing. I just thought I'd wind you up.

[Mulan]

Well alrightee then! XD

[Mulan]

Mulan after thinking positivly come naturally loving take less energy than hating, belive me. Hate will tear you appart and it take more energy, letting things go looking at things positivly, and that sort takes less energy. You may disagree but sooner or later you'll find i'm right.

That's lovely, but what does it have to do with the argument? O.o Thinking positively comes natural for me but, much as it puzzles me, I know psychological data says that the general population is much more prone to negative thought than positive thought. "Letting things go and looking at things positively" is strenous mental rewiring for a majority of people who are used to thinking negatively and feel guilty if they think positively. Also, intense passion of any kind (love or hate) is a huuuuge energy expenditure. As for the issue at hand, it is not about either positive or negative thought wasting energy, because a neutral mindset (where you spend the least energy) heals slower and less efficiently than positive mindset.Therefore, it is about the mindset, not amount of energy waste.