What are the hurdles?

[JasonE]

As a male martial arts and fitness instructor, I need some fresh perspectives on how to address the physical, mental, emotional, and any other hurdles that women experience in training.

As someone that knows far too many women that have been raped or assaulted, I want to find ways to attract more women to train for self defense instead of just for basic fitness. I am hoping that women on this forum would be kind enough to share some of their thoughts.

Thanks in advance for your input. Feel free to to check out my fitness training web site to verify I'm legit. I am also a moderator on the Circular Strength Magazine forums if you want more background on me.

Thanks for your time and feedback!

[EmptyneSs]

if u really wanna help them, give them their money back, give em the speech about awareness of your surroundings and sutiations, and tell them to go buy a good pepper spray, or tazer gun or something, becayse unless they are gi jane, big manly dykes, or really athletic, a womens self defense class isnt going to do them much good in real life.

[JasonE]

Women don't need to be men to be effective. Telling someone to be aware doesn't teach them how to remain aware and able to react under stress. Pepper sprays and tazers are questionable at best, and useless if you freeze or can't operate them effectively when needed.

I have seen women overcome their personal challenges and become amazingly effective. It can be done, but many women face hurdles that make it very difficult for them to achieve that level. Most seem content to just scratch the surface enough for some exercise... and I am trying to learn how to draw more women to the idea of training for genuine effectiveness, a much more challenging journey.

Women only, please respond with your thoughts. Thanks!

[EmptyneSs]

if personal protection weapons and awareness arent enough, your average womens self defense class damn sure aint gonna be any better.

pepper spray, tazers, and other personal protection weapons dont guarantee a womans safety, however in most cases, its probobly their best option.

training for a long time in a martial art will bring about results for sure, no matter who you u are, however not everyone has the time to train long enough to become proficient in combat.

im really not trying to be negative, im just trying my best to be realistic. unless your self defense class is some kinda of new cutting edge program that is really effective, unlike most womens self defense classes, i will remain pretty skeptical.

plus, going to a few classes wont make u combat effective. u need at least a few years of intense training, and regularly competing aganist resisting opponents to teach you how to keep your cool while fighting. a few seminars and some classes here and there isnt enough.

[JasonE]

You seem to think that arming a person is better than training them, and that women can't learn to protect themselves anyway. Wrong on both counts.

I can see how your attitude and assumptions about women and self-defense, if shared by others, could be a major barrier to getting women interested in real training. I can't imagine women wanting to train with any guy that says they're just gonna be ineffective no matter what so they should just buy pepper spray. Thanks for standing in as an example of what not to be.

[bodhisattva]

I'd say the biggest hurdle is getting them in to the gym.

The second biggest hurdle is that many girls don't want to be in covered in some guy's sweat, with his ass in her face.

Those are the biggest hurdles.

Emptyness: You are only exposing your ignorance. We have had many girls and women at the SBG portland who are VERY capable fighters, and excellent athletes, as well.

Your ideas are old. They are no longer true.

Arming people who don't know how to fight is about as smart as arming a 4 year old. Give an untrained, unathletic woman a knife and tell her to defend herself, and she is just as likely to get her face bashed in, the knife taken away, and then it may get REALLY ugly for her.

Women can be just as tough as men if they train like men. A knife, or pepper spray, or a tazer..these are just props. A person has to be a good fighter if they are to use these props effectively.

Why does it make you feel better to call women weak? Women are not weak. They are survivors just as men are survivors.

[EmptyneSs]

Emptyness: You are only exposing your ignorance. We have had many girls and women at the SBG portland who are VERY capable fighters, and excellent athletes, as well.

i didnt say women cant be capable fighters. you are showing your ignorance since u are replying to things i didnt even say. the women u speak of have no doubt trained hard a decent gym for years and have spent time and hardwork building skills. they didnt go to a self defense class for a couple weeks and not experience fighting resisting opponents. u understand what im saying now? since u totally didnt before.

Arming people who don't know how to fight is about as smart as arming a 4 year old. Give an untrained, unathletic woman a knife and tell her to defend herself, and she is just as likely to get her face bashed in, the knife taken away, and then it may get REALLY ugly for her.

again, notice how i never ever mentioned knife in any of my posts. u are again responding to something i didnt even say. i didnt reccomend knives, i recommended sprays and tazers, they dont require alot of skill, thats their whole perpous. just point and click. even those dont work all the time, but its better than nothing. and dont say they are no good, they are used every single day by law enforcement all over the world.

Women can be just as tough as men if they train like men.

i never said women cant be tough. im saying that going to a typical womens self defense class isnt gonna cut it. training hard and dedicating yourself to a martial art will. alot of women who go to these typical self defense classes arent getting the training needed to build the attributes of a true fighter. its more a mdojo/ seminar money maker type thing that lasts a few weeks.

Why does it make you feel better to call women weak? Women are not weak. They are survivors just as men are survivors.

again, i never said women were weak. all i was saying was stay away from shitty mcdojo type womens self defense classes, and either dedicate yourself to training hard in a martial art at a respectable school, aand if u dont want to do that then your best choice is to get a spray, or tazer. its not my fault u guys misinterpret what i say and then respond to things i didnt say.

[gregimotis]

i never said women cant be tough. im saying that going to a typical womens self defense class isnt gonna cut it. training hard and dedicating yourself to a martial art will. alot of women who go to these typical self defense classes arent getting the training needed to build the attributes of a true fighter

Thank you Emptyness for getting us back on track -

ladies of the forum, here's a man who would like some help arranging an effective, realistic self-defense class that does not revolve around the 'don't go outside alone' philosophy.

Cakegirl? Polegirl? er... T-3 maybe?

[HtTKar]

and either dedicate yourself to training hard in a martial art at a respectable school, aand if u dont want to do that then your best choice is to get a spray, or tazer.

I've said this before. Pepper spray does nothing. Its just a little squirt of hotsauce. In order to stop a criminal intent on hurting you, you would need one of those bear-sized cans. Many criminals seek out women with the small cans of spray, they make easy targets. The criminal already knows they're not going to get hurt real bad, and they know exactly how the woman will defend herself.

Tazers and stunguns work, as long as they can get them out of their purse before the attacker has a chance to react.

The main hurdle I have seen is that although the woman I speak of want to learn all the self-defense stuff, they dont want to be in front of a bunch of people practicing it. Kinda shy about getting up there. I guess small or private classes would be the best way. I think the best thing to teach would be situational awareness. Someone on here said this before and it was so true...women are incapable of understanding what men think. They really should be let in on all the sick shit that violent criminals are capable of.

[Ahsen]

we have agued this before on a similar topic some time ago

There are some martail arts classes that make proft on womens fear but doesn't mean that you should give up practicing.

[mrniceguy148]

As a male martial arts and fitness instructor, I need some fresh perspectives on how to address the physical, mental, emotional, and any other hurdles that women experience in training.

Hi Jason,

Several years ago I took cardio-kickboxing class with an emphasis on self-defense. As you might expect, the class consisted of mostly women. The ratio was about 16 to 2 I think.

Anyway, once in a while I'd stop and just watch how these women trained on the heavy bags. I was appalled, to say the least. None of these women seemed willing to put any effort into their training and the instructor just let it go on and on like that. These women seemed more worried about the possibility of breaking a nail during training than about how effective their SD skills would be if attacked. Outside of the cardio benefit, they were wasting their time if SD training was their main purpose for being there.

Understand, these were all average women with typical female personality traits; none of whom had great athletic ability or the macho desire to aquire years of advanced training or to compete in MA tournaments. If you are to put together an effective women's self defense program than realize that the types of women who I've described here will probably make up the majority of your students.

Therefore, the best advice that I can give you is simply to find a way to get these girls to train at 100% intensity at all times, and as though their lives depended on it. Concentrate on a few basic and powerful strikes and make sure that they can, and do, execute them properly.

Good luck,
Mr Miceguy

[cakegirl]

LOL I broke two nails (bent them right back where they were still attached to my finger) last night at BJJ.

[Ryo]

I'm currently enrolled in a co-ed TKD class, which I enjoy very much, even if I am usually one of two girls in a class of twelve. I agree with mrniceguy (the simpler and more effective, the better), and here are some tips of my own:

-an all-girl class (some people feel more comfortable around members of their own sex. less worries about grappling, appearance, and such.)

-practice situations (practice moves for specific, likely scenarios. ex: "So you're walking down a street and someone approaches you from behind...")


...I'll probably think of some more later.

Good luck!

[medic06]

I've said this before. Pepper spray does nothing.

that's not true. It can work wonders in a gumbo or wit some boiled crawfish. That's some good eatin'.

[Tom Yum]

that's not true. It can work wonders in a gumbo or wit some boiled crawfish. That's some good eatin'.

Wooo-eeeeyh!

you gots to finish off wit some fresh fried beignets and coffee wit chockory