Real Self Deffence

[Little Apple]

This thread, like this forum, is dedicated to the discusion of effective ways that women can be safe, especially from pertinent threats. I figgure I'll start with my very humble oppinion, and we can go from there.

Just to be clear, I don't think men are the root of all evil, and I don't actually think that the most pertinent danger to women comes from men. Let me explain: I recently took a road trip with three friends. One of them was miserable and grumpy the whole time. When we got to Seatle, we found a cheep hotel and she went out for a cigarette. When she didn't come back after a while, we went to look for her. We learned that she had first gone out walking, through the city she didn't know, at night, alone. Then on her way in, had met a group of people who were staying on the first floor, went into thier room, where they were drinking, took what they gave her to drink, and was PISSED as hell when we came to get her. She felt that she was perfectly fine doing whatever she wanted, and where did we get off being her mother?

The purpose of this story is not to bash my friend, it's to illustrate a point. More often than not, this kind of thing is the begining of a rape/assault story. I would like to propose that the most pertinent danger to women is not the men who attack them, but the mentality that stops them from taking responsibility for their safety.

I'm not saying that the act of being raped is ever the women's fault, the person who comits that heinus crime is the one responsible for the action. However, for a woman to assume that it's safe to go home with some guy in a bar, to get drunk with a stranger, or to be in secluded places alone is not realistic. It would be nice if that's the way the world was, but it's really not, and women need to 1)know that, and 2)act acordingly.

My question is: How can we change that mentality? How can we convince women that THEY are responcible for their safety? I taught a SD thing to a bunch of 12 year olds once, and after the "go everywhere in groups" etc, we had them hit some pads so they'd feel more comfortable using force. The girls would not hit the pads, or if they did, they wouldn't even try to hit hard.

I feel that this is the most pertinent danger to women, so let's find some effective solutions.

[gabbah]

Yeah I know what you mean about not wanting to hit the pads... That happens sometimes in kickboxing training when I'm holding the pads for a girl, and she's supposed to do a teep on my stomach in the combo... she barely touches me. I tell her repeatedly to use force and really push me back with the kick but she still won't do it. Says she doesn't want to hurt me or something.. jeezus

[treelizard]

Maybe you were holding the pads wrong?

[stabbychick]

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[stabbychick]

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[gabbah]

Maybe you were holding the pads wrong?

After 2,5 years of training kickboxing I sure hope not! :P
For the teep she's not even supposed to hit the pads, just teep my stomach directly, push me back, and then follow up with a roundhouse on the pads.

What, are you built like Bill Gates or something? Or is she built like a tank?

lol no, shes a petit chick, she has no chance of hurting me haha... I told her come OOOONNNN, kick me!!! But she says she is too nice to do that and doesn't want to hit people.. hahaha what is she doing training kickboxing then.

[Little Apple]

In that case I'm glad she's in kickboxing, it'll be good for her. I was the same way when I started martial arts, I didn't want to hurt anyone. It's silly because I'm small, and there were people just wailing on each other and they were fine. And so you cause a bruise? Big deal. I honestly think that I thought it would mean I wasn't a good person or something.

As to how we can change the mentality, there's a few ways I thought of: Going into school to teach self deffence things is a good way. You have to volonteer yourself though, the schools aren't going to come ask you to do it. Middle school through collage would let you, probably not elementary.

For adults, a good start would be to raise awareness, and introduce exactly what it means to be responsible for your safety. If you say to someone "You are the person responsible for keeping yourself safe. The world isn't going to protect you if you're careless." They're not exactly going to disagree, but very few understand what the means in real life.

For that, I'd say talk to your friends or whoever when the subject comes up. Emphasize being aware of your surroundings and acting proactivly. Even the timid would be safer if they stayed aware and tried to be smart (though of course not looking/acting like a victim would be a good step too, but one step at a time).

I really think that if the concept of "really taking responsibility for your safety" could be introduced, it'd be progress. So like I said, go to schools, talk about it, or even post something on line where lots are likely to see it.

The key to remember is that women MUST start being responsible for their actions where safety is conserned. And they must also stop blaming bad situations on everyone else, because this blinds them to what they did to put themselves there, and it's more likely they'll do it again. Harsh, I know, but true.

[treelizard]

Just asking because sometimes I have a hard time kicking the pads hard if someone looks like they're holding it wrong, or aren't anchoring properly or pushing the pad forward a little into the kick. If I land a kick and they like, FLY back, I get all nervous about it, unless they're ninjas and can do those cool rolls, ha ha. I just don't think some humans can take a kick as well as a heavy bag.

You just have to mess with people a bit sometimes to get 'em to kick you. Or just say something like, "Somebody just REALLY pissed you off," or something.

[treelizard]

Oh yeah, one more thing that helps is to tell people to kick THROUGH the pads, or to imagine a different target, like saying, "you are not kicking this pad, you are kicking THROUGH my chest and to the other side."


Heh, maybe put a Barney doll there or something.

[Sagacious Lu]

I told her come OOOONNNN, kick me!!! But she says she is too nice to do that and doesn't want to hit people.. hahaha what is she doing training kickboxing then.

I've had to work with people that had that attitude, and to be honest it's very hard for me to be patient with them- it makes them useless as training partners. It's great that she's willing to get out of her comfort zone and try something new, but seriously, what's the point of going to a kickboxing gym if you're too nice to kick anyone

Barney doll

Murder death must kill now!

[treelizard]

I've had to work with people that had that attitude, and to be honest it's very hard for me to be patient with them- it makes them useless as training partners. It's great that she's willing to get out of her comfort zone and try something new, but seriously, what's the point of going to a kickboxing gym if you're too nice to kick anyone

Hey don't give up on 'em too quickly! Maybe if they hang around you more they'll want to kick things.

[Sagacious Lu]

Hey don't give up on 'em too quickly! Maybe if they hang around you more they'll want to kick things.

LOL... it isn't really an issue where I train now because the place is set up for everyone to be able to go at their own pace. I have seen it become a problem in the past though. If you get a couple people like that together it can bring the whole class down big time. Obviously if someone is new you expect them to take a little while to adjust but when you have members of the senior class that STILL haven't out grown that attitude it can be extremely frustrating. Especially when they make you out to be the bad guy because *gasp* you actually WANT to practice the technique you're supposed to be working on. BTW because this is the Women's forum I should add that the one person in particular at one of my old schools that really pissed me off with this attitude was a guy- it's not a gender issue.

[Garland]

Why I'm biased to think that girls can be as strong and tough as men...

some of the girls I've trained with;

Ali "hollowpoint" Casey

http://www.womenkickboxing.com/images/ali.jpg

http://www.modiggitys.com/alison.gif

this is about her...I used to train with her back when she worked out at MTIK with Sakasem...I saw her first fight, it was a boxing match, not muay thai. I guess Kwame and her left with a bunch of other fighters...and went to Flash, I just kinda quit...I need to start training again.

http://www.womenkickboxing.com/alisanne.htm

M'Lisa Kiser

http://imagecloset.com/view.php?im=http://imagecloset.com/8/04440213-mkiser.jpg

(M'Lisa's husband is Brandon Kiser who runs Mushin Self Defense with Brian Yamasaki...Mushin is very close knit with Kalista Academy, Will Bernales's school, and Pedro Sauer's BJJ.)


These two girls could probably kick most people on this forum's ass...I know they beat the bejeesuz out of me when I used to train with them. (Ali knees sooooooo hard, and M'Lisa's got killer kicks...I can't wait until she goes pro and starts winning titles.)

[Little Apple]

I'm sure they could, and more power to them. I mostly started this thread though, to talk about ways to boost those with less confidence or awareness.

One thing I'd recomend with that student of yours, is to have her hold and you can wail on her, then swich emeidiatly and see if the energy you gave her will come back at you. I find that even on days when I'm not feeling in my body as much, getting sweaty and having to brace for one of the guys puts me right in there.

And just for myself, little coments like "You aren't going as hard as you were Monday, pick it up a little." are good because they imply that you already have the ability and just need to focus on pushing it a little more. Otherwise there's room for "I can't." or worse, "I don't want to" because you tell her she already did.

Let us know if any of our suggestions work!

[Little Apple]

Has anyone tried any of these suggestions? This forum is neigh useless if no one takes action.