Krav Maga

[Laura]

There's a couple of schools near me that teach this style, but I know very little about it. How do women fare in these classes and how effective a style is it? Is Muay Thai or similar styles just as good or is this more practical for women and self defense?

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

There's a school that teaches Krav Maga(taekwondo too) by my house thats called "Ultimate Martial Arts". I looked through the window and its a complete mcdojo IMHO.

But there's some good schools that teach real KM, which is deadly for anyone, even a 6 year old child. j/k

http://www.ultimatemartialarts.us/kravmaga.htm
Check out the instructors. Im gonna try to get a free lesson!

[EmptyneSs]

There's a couple of schools near me that teach this style, but I know very little about it. How do women fare in these classes and how effective a style is it? Is Muay Thai or similar styles just as good or is this more practical for women and self defense?

i think bjj is probobly the most practical martial art for womens self defense. women have to worry about things like being grabbed, held down, pinned to a wall, overpowered, mounted by another person etc due to the nature of the many sexual assaults that occur to women. and i think bjj adresses these issues pretty well. imagine if some guy tried to hold you down or grab you, you would know how to escape or mabye you could cripple him in the process. in bjj, you do tons of drills were you start with someone behind you, or someone on top of of you and you have to escape while your partner tries to finish you etc. and not only have i seen many women who can use bjj proficiently, i have been tapped out by some of them as well.

[Shoot]

great for women

Krav Maga is very well suited to women. The system is broken up into two sections: self defense and fighting. The self defense classes I've observed were about 90% women. They are very practical and will get you into top shape. Part of the KM philosophy is that getting in great physical shape is a self defense strategy. I totally agree. The system is complete. It covers weapons, striking, grappling, ground fighting. The ground fighting is organized and uses BJJ. It's essentially MMA with self defense techniques and other strikes such as side kicks to knees, edge of hand blow, hammer fist. The classes breed agression and confidence. I have a lot of good things to say about this system. It is modern and constantly being updated with what works.

[Thai Bri]

i think bjj is probobly the most practical martial art for womens self defense. women have to worry about things like being grabbed, held down, pinned to a wall, overpowered, mounted by another person etc due to the nature of the many sexual assaults that occur to women. and i think bjj adresses these issues pretty well. imagine if some guy tried to hold you down or grab you, you would know how to escape or mabye you could cripple him in the process. in bjj, you do tons of drills were you start with someone behind you, or someone on top of of you and you have to escape while your partner tries to finish you etc. and not only have i seen many women who can use bjj proficiently, i have been tapped out by some of them as well.

Yeah right. Don't use avoidance, escape, awareness, the fence, the pre emptive strike. No no no.

Just pull guard, take them to the floor and then wrestle.

[Ahsen]

Bruce Lee was taught pacific ( get it ! ) type of martail arts that was used for women against asslaints.

I forgot what its called.

Laura what type of MArtail Arts do you practice and how long did you do it for ?

[Laura]

Wing Chun five years; JKD six months. I love both, just curious about something that will give me a workout but have something valuable to teach. I've been curious about the effectiveness of Krav Maga for a while.

[EmptyneSs]

Yeah right. Don't use avoidance, escape, awareness, the fence, the pre emptive strike. No no no.

women have heard all that shit again and again, doesnt seem to help em much.

Just pull guard, take them to the floor and then wrestle.

your scope of bjj is obviously limited.

[grappler-jordan]

Let's not get into an effectiveness of BJJ debate on this thread... just try to answer the questions for Laura...

Laura, I have had 2 experiences with Krav Maga instructors, both of whom came to cross train at my previous school (before my instructor had a recent stroke). The first instructor who came in (and who I formed my opinion about Krav Maga on) was an all around strong martial artist who was very self-defense oriented, he kept his techniques reality based and was an excellent instructor. Overall I was impressed with his well rounded skillset and the philosophy and curriculum behind the art itself. My second encounter however, was not so pleasant. I will simply say that the instructor should have been leading a Cardio Kickboxing class at the local Gold's Gym not trying to sell himself as a Self-Defense Instructor. Not only did he not have any knowledge to provide but he struggled with proper basic punching, kicking and self-defense techniques...

The point I am getting at is that the Art itself is sound and effective from my experience, however, ensure that the school you are attending is going to provide you with the training and techniques that you are looking for...

[Laura]

That's a good point, it's rather like everyone claims to teach JKD but few people teach the real deal. I will make it a point to observe a class before I decide to join any school.

[grappler-jordan]

That's a good point, it's rather like everyone claims to teach JKD but few people teach the real deal. I will make it a point to observe a class before I decide to join any school.

Exactly, good luck to you Laura...

[szorn]

There's a couple of schools near me that teach this style, but I know very little about it. How do women fare in these classes and how effective a style is it? Is Muay Thai or similar styles just as good or is this more practical for women and self defense?

For basic self-defense I wouldn't recommend Krav Maga or Muay Thai for women. These systems emphasize closed-fist strikes which can take months and years to perfect to the point where they can be used effectively for self-defense. I would recommend a good basic self-defense program that stresses natural open-hand techniques. Those that stress adrenal response training and use padded suits to conduct realistic self-defense scenarios are all pretty good. However, if this training is going to be for more than just self-defense I would recommend Muay Thai under a highly qulaified instructor if that is an option for you.

Steve Zorn, ICPS

[szorn]

i think bjj is probobly the most practical martial art for womens self defense. women have to worry about things like being grabbed, held down, pinned to a wall, overpowered, mounted by another person etc due to the nature of the many sexual assaults that occur to women. and i think bjj adresses these issues pretty well. imagine if some guy tried to hold you down or grab you, you would know how to escape or mabye you could cripple him in the process. in bjj, you do tons of drills were you start with someone behind you, or someone on top of of you and you have to escape while your partner tries to finish you etc. and not only have i seen many women who can use bjj proficiently, i have been tapped out by some of them as well.

I would say that I disagree with this. While it is true that women may have to worry about those things that you mention I wouldn't recommend that they attempt to wrestle, grapple, or fight for the dominant position while a 250 pound monster is attempting to sexually assault them. Not to mention that it's highly possible that they may find themselves facing multiple assailants. In such a situation ground grappling is not a tactic of choice. Women, like everyone else must be taught awareness, avoidance, & prevention followed by simple escape tactics as well as de-escalation tactics. Then they should be taught solid standing tactics to avoid going to the ground and extremely vicious ground tactics when all else fails. These tactics should be simple and direct and the objective should be to get back to a standing position as qucikly as possible while preventing the attacker(s) from continuing the assault.

Steve Zorn, ICPS

[EmptyneSs]

I would say that I disagree with this. While it is true that women may have to worry about those things that you mention I wouldn't recommend that they attempt to wrestle, grapple, or fight for the dominant position while a 250 pound monster is attempting to sexually assault them. Not to mention that it's highly possible that they may find themselves facing multiple assailants. In such a situation ground grappling is not a tactic of choice. Women, like everyone else must be taught awareness, avoidance, & prevention followed by simple escape tactics as well as de-escalation tactics. Then they should be taught solid standing tactics to avoid going to the ground and extremely vicious ground tactics when all else fails. These tactics should be simple and direct and the objective should be to get back to a standing position as qucikly as possible while preventing the attacker(s) from continuing the assault.

Steve Zorn, ICPS

the point of learning grappling for self defense isnt to engage attackers in wrestling and try to demolish them mma style or bring them to the ground. this is the misconception people who dont know much about grappling have. all they know of grappling is what they have seen on spike tv. bjj has tons of escapes from every bad position you can think. bjj also has tons of techniques that can help you get back to your feet fast. you cant always avoid being grabbed or taken down, its a possibility and once it happens training in grappling will give you the best chance to get back to your feet and escaping. how is a woman going to get out from under a much bigger guy pinning her to the ground trying to rape her? well bjj may help dont you think? what do women need to be concerned about most? getting in streetfights? or getting sexually assaulted and overpowered by predators?? think about it, what art gives you the best odds of escaping someone who is attempting to physically overpower you and sexually assauly you against your will? bjj, judo, wrestling stand out to me.

pulling the guard isnt the only thing you can do with jiu jitsu.

in bjj you spend so much time doing drills were you start from a disadvantaged position and you must escape while your partner tries to finish you. for example, in bjj you do drills were your partner starts on top of you pinning you to the ground, or he he starts behind you and has your back and you have to escape while avoid being choked out etc. through constant drills like this people can learn how to effectively escape from being grabbed, pinned, or strangled using technique. this type of training inmop is most beneficial to women.

[szorn]

the point of learning grappling for self defense isnt to engage attackers in wrestling and try to demolish them mma style or bring them to the ground. this is the misconception people who dont know much about grappling have. all they know of grappling is what they have seen on spike tv. bjj has tons of escapes from every bad position you can think. bjj also has tons of techniques that can help you get back to your feet fast. you cant always avoid being grabbed or taken down, its a possibility and once it happens training in grappling will give you the best chance to get back to your feet and escaping. how is a woman going to get out from under a much bigger guy pinning her to the ground trying to rape her? well bjj may help dont you think? what do women need to be concerned about most? getting in streetfights? or getting sexually assaulted and overpowered by predators?? think about it, what art gives you the best odds of escaping someone who is attempting to physically overpower you and sexually assauly you against your will? bjj, judo, wrestling stand out to me.

pulling the guard isnt the only thing you can do with jiu jitsu.

in bjj you spend so much time doing drills were you start from a disadvantaged position and you must escape while your partner tries to finish you. for example, in bjj you do drills were your partner starts on top of you pinning you to the ground, or he he starts behind you and has your back and you have to escape while avoid being choked out etc. through constant drills like this people can learn how to effectively escape from being grabbed, pinned, or strangled using technique. this type of training inmop is most beneficial to women.

While I do agree with you on the objectives I still believe there are other easier and simpler ways of reaching them. I will admit I am not a BJJ practitioner but I have good friends who are and I periodically train with them. I have also researched a good portion of the BJJ instructional materials out there, most coming from the Gracie's themselves. Unfortunately, some people believe that BJJ is the only source of viable ground fighting out there. However, I can tell you that truly isn't the case. There have been warriors from every culture using ground tactics in real combat long before the Gracies were ever born.

The problem is that most semi-traditional martials arts, BJJ included, don't take into consideration the emotional and physiological effects that a real assault has on a person. They don't understand how the release of adrenaline will decrease cognitive thought processes. In other words the intended victim may not be thinking clearly enough under the stress of a real assault to remember or use all of those complex transitions that they were taught at the BJJ class. Practitioners of said systems don't understand that there is a high probability that motor-skill function will be decreased. Meaning that it will be physically difficult to use some of those complex skills, even if they can remember them. Also, most of these systems don't implement realistic training into the equation. I know that you are going to say that an adrenaline response does occur in the ring but research has shown that the adrenaline release during a sporting event is not the same as one that occurs during a potentially life-or-death altercation.

If all of that isn't bad enough, most of those systems, BJJ included, can not be learned and mastered in a short period of time. The fact that few people ever reach black belt level in BJJ is proof of this. Unfortunately, when someone needs realistic self-defense skills, they need skills that are easy to learn, easy to remember, easy to use under the stress of a real assault, and they need skills that can be learned in minimal time. Does BJJ fit that criteria? To be blunt, NO. Most martial arts require years of high rep practice to master to a point where they can be used for real self-defense and in some cases traditional techniques have even failed once mastered.

Here is a hypothetical situation- a woman comes to you for self-defense training. She tells you that she can see the future and that she has seen herself being brutally attacked, raped, and killed. This vision is to come true in exactly 2 days and she wants you to prepare her to save her own life. So, you have 2 days to physically and mentally prepare this woman to fight for her life. What do you teach her in under 2 days? Do you stick with the BJJ or give her something else that you know will increase her odds of survival? Honestly, I wouldn't bet this woman's life on BJJ.

Here is a good litmus test- take a woman with absolutely no martial arts, self-defense, or athletic skill and give her a 3 hour course on BJJ then pressure test her against single and multiple attackers wearing padded suits. Make the attacks as realistic and intense as possible while avoiding injuries. See how it turns. This is exactly what I do with my combatives-based program and I can tell you that every woman in the class walks away with the ability to succesfully deal with such a situation in just under 3 hours. How? Because the skills are based on natural and instinctive gross-motor movements, not complex unnatural traditional martial arts techniques. It takes into consideration the adrenal response and it's potentially negative effects on the human body. It teaches women how to embrace this physiological response and use it to their advantage. It teaches women to deal with the mental and emotional issues of a real and chaotic assault. It also covers those other components I mentioned previously that most martial arts systems don't even bother to address in their classes.

Steve Zorn, ICPS