Guns

[darrianation]

For distances further away:

Acceptable lines of movement. The closer you are to the threat the sharper the angles should be. There are several acceptible scenarios here.

Feet move first then drawstroke and shoot while you continue to move.

[Tant01]

Unless it's your job or duty one should could consider that distance is your friend. The idea is to get away safe, right?

[gregimotis]

Unless it's your job or duty one should could consider that distance is your friend. The idea is to get away safe, right?

The idea is to get away safe... but maybe if the bad guys got killed a little more often, there'd be fewer innocents gunned down for their purses and cell phones.

[darrianation]

Unless it's your job or duty one should could consider that distance is your friend. The idea is to get away safe, right?

The best fight is the one you never get into and the highest level of self-defense is avoidance.

If you believe you can safely get away then you have no obligation to stay but there are other things to consider too not the least of which is being shot in the back. After the possibility of being shot in the back other things to consider are escape routes or an active shooter in a mall or like Virginia Tech, etc, situation although you have no legal obligation to protect the innocent we don’t need any more cowards either the world is full of them (and I am not calling anyone here a coward---just making a general point).Otherwise if you can make a clean get-away then do it.

Remember gunfighting is 50% shooting the badguy and 50% not getting shot. The most important between the two is not getting shot.

[darrianation]

If you noticed in the second diagram above there is a second movement or change in angle. This is important because at some point along the first line of muzzle evasion the badguy will begin to track you and if you haven’t dropped him by this point he will begin to get hits on you sooner or later.

The second line of movement (change in direction) accounts for this and he has to re-track you giving you more time to get more hits on him. In this movement scheme you do not cross in front of his muzzle at anytime.

[darrianation]

I think we're talking about situations where disarming is the only reasonable option. Otherwise, I think my father said it well when he said:

"The best gun defense of all is a well-turned corner."

The Nike defense!

[Tant01]

The best fight is the one you never get into and the highest level of self-defense is avoidance.

.... if you can make a clean get-away then do it.

Remember gunfighting is 50% shooting the badguy and 50% not getting shot. The most important between the two is not getting shot.

We are in agreement. If the only way out is through the gun then you should have the confidence to attack it. Just not false confidence.

I can string fire ten under two and hit stuff even from the hip. I wouldn't want me shooting at me. Tactics and armor or not...

[Red Rum]

To be honest, the best way to tackle knives and guns is to NOT grab the weapon. You will be surprised how attackers react when you go for a good technique and it will not be the same as a person in a dojo pointing a rubber gun at you.

The best way is to go straight for the attacker. Then you can deal with the weapon

If you need any convincing try and disarm an opponent who is holding a red felt pen. It's a wake up call when you are covered in red ink. It makes you realise that if it was a knife you would have been sliced up. In a gun situation it would be even worse.

There are some schools that are extremely good at gun disarmament but at the end of the day if you make a mistake in the technique, you are going to get shot. If you strike the attacker hard and fast, their first thought won't be to use the gun

[Tant01]

Direct aggression is a very important part of disarming. In some cases they will actually drop the gun themselves...But you can't count on it. Weapon control is still the primary objective.

IMHO

[darrianation]

I agree with Tanto and Mike in that controlling the weapon is very important and I also agree directing aggression and violence upon the weapon wielder go hand in hand.

But I would have to say I would much rather face the gun at such close ranges then the knife. The knife is much more dangerous at this range and much more difficult to deal with.

[Little Apple]

as a random side note, wouldn't using a squirt gun be better for training gun defense than a pen?

Anyway, I don't know or anything, but what I've heard goes with what darrianation said: knife at close range being more dangerous than a gun at close range. I've also heard that (weapon itself aside) a knife wielder is more dangerous than a gun wielder; that a person with a gun might just be there to scare you, but a person with a knife is almost always there to cut you.

[darrianation]

For practicing the disarms I prefer a rubber gun with the trigger gaurd cut out (and metal training knife) because the Airsofts are little fragile and break easily, I have broken 2 or 3 $100 Airsofts in this manner.

In the force on force stuff we just close and gain control and stop at that point if the airsofts are used. The airsoft are great for creating more realistic interaction that sheds light on any inadequacies in the training method but it can get expensive if you keep breaking them (even the cheapies add up after awhile).

[darrianation]

Mike in your airsoft training do you notice the majority of hits are on the hands and arms?

I think it is because the human eye naturally is programmed to look for movement which the majority of movement tends to be with the arms and in the gunfight at close ranges folks default to unsighted fire more often than not (even the modern techniquers---if they don't they die) and the rounds go to were you are instinctively and often unconsciously are looking.

That and the fact most folks shoot to center mass and the opponents gun (arms and hands too) will be in the general area as well.

I find the same thing happens in the real world in close range gunfights.

[darrianation]

I just want to add, when practicing gun disarms make sure the badguy roll player does not have his finger in the trigger guard because it can be broken if the disarm is carried out with robustness (and why shouldn't it be?).

[darrianation]

We often use three badguys too, many times two are armed with guns and one with a knife otherwise they are all armed with guns.

If cover is available that may change the direction in which the goodguy moves. These diagrams are assuming there is no cover available. Also if the GG is flanked that might also change the movement pattern.

In the case of the diagram below the first burst of fire should be at the closest opponent in the direction of initial movement.

I don’t use the 2 and 1 method for shooting that is 2 to CM and 1 to CNS. I am a proponent of burst fire that is at least 3 shots to CM before moving to another target (rather that be another individual or to the head shot). And I am also a proponent of the “run & gun” unless you have good cover position and then you should still change positions often especially during reloads.

When I say 1:00 or 11:00 the angles can be just as easily increased to 2:00 or 10:00.