late night musing

[treelizard]

When I was younger and went around in groups, mates would either flee, get in the way, draw muggers towards you (by having flashy jewellry/phones etc)or make you concerned about their safety too

Sounds like you're hanging out with the wrong crowd.

I think you are focusing on singular attacks such as rape/assault which accounts for about 9% of crime in the UK, as opposed to muggings/personal robbery etc which make up around 64% of crime in the UK

Actually if you had looked at the stats I posted you would see that it included rape and assault as well as robbery and muggings.

I was trying to shatter people's illusions that they are safe in groups. They are not.

People are safer in groups. In fact, the real cops I saw when I lived in England were always in groups, hmmm, I wonder why?

Now cook me my tea

Cook your own tea.

[Red Rum]

In one of your posts you wrote

That type of attitude will get you killed in the streets, especially if you really are a cop..

Nonsense. Martial arts have saved my life more times than I can remember. When I was younger and went around in groups, mates would either flee, get in the way, draw muggers towards you (by having flashy jewellry/phones etc)or make you concerned about their safety too

You also wrote

That would indicate a lack of knowledge of both criminal behavior and stats on crime, my dear...

Why? I was saying that if you have two people with you it is a case of two bullets instead of one.

That would be an anecdotal story that is statistically irrelevant. Guess your friend was in the 6.3% (or whatever it is in London.) I'm sure he made other tactical errors as well.

(It's not all about statistics, though. I will say that if my friend is walking me to my car and I am attacked or I am walking her to her car and she is attacked, there will be multiple victims.)

There was no tactical error. They were mugged in broad daylight down a busy road.

No, I'm being walked to my car (or walking someone to her car) to decrease the likelihood of a physical confrontation. I'm sorry you don't like the statistics that "you think you know" which indicate that people are less likely to be approached or assaulted in groups, but that's the way it is.

If you are with a large group then yes I agree, but i have still been assaulted when I have been in a large group.
The trouble is that in England, if you are in a group you have technically not been attacked and it will be classified as an assault that both parties are equally involved in (ie it is seen as a fight where everyone is guilty)

The criminals that I deal with would surprise you. They often like to attack people in twos or threes as it is three times the reward.

And what about Americas problems with gun toting nutters going into schools and wiping people out. Columbine and the recent one. They didn't care how many people were in there (well they actually targeted the larger polulus deliberatley)

I think you are focusing on singular attacks such as rape/assault which accounts for about 9% of crime in the UK, as opposed to muggings/personal robbery etc which make up around 64% of crime in the UK

[QUOTE=treelizard;273746]
I do find it interesting that you think it's problematic for people to be aware of the fact that they are less likely to be assaulted in groups, yet it's okay to believe you are invincible simply because you have a bit of martial arts training.[QUOTE=treelizard;273746]

Didn't say invincible. But for me I would rather be very very good at martial arts (which some say I am) and be able to use it, than have a person with me

I was trying to shatter people's illusions that they are safe in groups. They are not.
If someone wants to attack then they will.

[QUOTE=treelizard;273746]
That's not a generic statement. Quit backpedalling[QUOTE=treelizard;273746]
You have cut this quote out -
'No but your whole post implied that walking you to your car would somehow make you safer. I just don't like the automatic assumption'

Why have you only cut the quote to this far? You have missed out the end of that sentence.
The first part was aimed at you. Your original (first) post seemed to imply that you needed to be walked to your car. My next statement which was
'I just don't like the automatic assumption that exists in the world today..'

THAT is generic.....

Now cook me my tea

[treelizard]

In one of your posts you wrote

If you are both that good at martial arts, do you really need to be escorted to your cars?

That type of attitude will get you killed in the streets, especially if you really are a cop.

You also wrote

If he has a gun. It is just a case of boom boom. It doesn't matter whether you have a person with you.

That would indicate a lack of knowledge of both criminal behavior and stats on crime, my dear.

And if it helps - my friend was mugged two days ago, and guess what - he was with a friend!!

That would be an anecdotal story that is statistically irrelevant. Guess your friend was in the 6.3% (or whatever it is in London.) I'm sure he made other tactical errors as well.

(It's not all about statistics, though. I will say that if my friend is walking me to my car and I am attacked or I am walking her to her car and she is attacked, there will be multiple victims.)

This statement made it appear that you were being walked to the car for a physical confrontation.

No, I'm being walked to my car (or walking someone to her car) to decrease the likelihood of a physical confrontation. I'm sorry you don't like the statistics that "you think you know" which indicate that people are less likely to be approached or assaulted in groups, but that's the way it is.

I do find it interesting that you think it's problematic for people to be aware of the fact that they are less likely to be assaulted in groups, yet it's okay to believe you are invincible simply because you have a bit of martial arts training.

However, my comments were generic - I said...

No but your whole post implied that walking you to your car would somehow make you safer. I just don't like the automatic assumption

That's not a generic statement. Quit backpedalling.

[Red Rum]

Hmmm yeah considering I work for the Metropolitan Police in the UK, I think I know stats on crime my dear....

And if it helps - my friend was mugged two days ago, and guess what - he was with a friend!!

'a friend and i went to see comedy and sing karaoke. afterwards, i offered to walk her to her car. she said she was going to walk me to my car, because she outranked me'

This statement made it appear that you were being walked to the car for a physical confrontation. If I read it wrong I apologize. However, my comments were generic - I said...
'I just don't like the automatic assumption that exists in the world today..'
I didn't say
'I just don't like your assumption that..'

[treelizard]

P.S. Check this out. It's from the Bureau of Justice Statistics, so hopefully you won't have a problem with their mindset.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/cvus/current/cv0536.pdf

That's 93.7% of violent crimes with just one victim. Hmm... How about them apples?

[treelizard]

Yeah, a post that was about who would be less likely to fall over or get up quicker if they are attacked while being walked to their car implies that if someone is walking with a friend they're not going to get attacked. And saying four fists are better than two really implies that one isn't ever going to have to use them. Also the words I used were "less likely" not "definitely will not be" attacked. You are just reading what you want to read. Get over yourself.

[Red Rum]

No but your whole post implied that walking you to your car would somehow make you safer. I just don't like the automatic assumption that exists in the world today that if you walk home with a friend you are not going to get attacked

[treelizard]

If he has a gun. It is just a case of boom boom. It doesn't matter whether you have a person with you.

Unless he's using a gun for intimidation instead of to actually shoot it.

Did I say anywhere that two people would stop someone from attacking? I do think the odds are better both for not being made a target and for coming away unscathed when you have two armed, trained people with cell phones as opposed to just one.

I lived in the UK for 8 months and I made sure to go out in groups when possible, wait with people at the bus station, etc. there too.

[Red Rum]

First of all, even a person with a weapon is more likely to go after one person than two people. Second of all, four fists are better than two.

If he has a gun. It is just a case of boom boom. It doesn't matter whether you have a person with you.

Four fists are definately better than two, and six are better than four, but it won't stop them attacking.

I hate the whole mentality that tricks you into thinking - if I am with someone I won't get attacked. In the UK, if someone wants to mug you they will. Weaker targets are better, yes, but two people being there won't stop most people

[shaolin-warrior]

Tree Lizard,
Its so funny that you posed this question. We (our school) just finished street defense month. Which is important for us because we are a traditional martial art. You would be surprised at how many people (high ranking) would leave class feeling like they were white belts. We wore street clothes all month and did many different drills. One of the drills involved taking only one of the self defense techniques that we knew and trying to apply it to any type of attack, forcing the student to alter it under pressure to make it work.
We did verbal taunting drills which I was really god at.(the taunting part) Two on one drills. And padded attacker full contact drills. Down town field trip to run scenarios in paring lots with prop weapons but you could use anything you could get your hands on to defend yourself. We all learned alot about our chemical makeups and our real life skill levels, our stong points and or shortcomings. We are (as a class) going to work on our short comings and do the exercises again in three months.

[treelizard]

First of all, even a person with a weapon is more likely to go after one person than two people. Second of all, four fists are better than two.

[Red Rum]

If you are both that good at martial arts, do you really need to be escorted to your cars?

What difference are two people going to make if you are attacked with a weapon? You still have to approach it the same way!!

[Ahsen]

It might be fun to train in heels. It would keep me on my toes.

YOu'll break your ankles

[Little Apple]

You would really have to market it as a "self-defense day" though. Afterwards you could all go train team tactics by playing laser tag. In heels. Even the men. Heh, j/k.

[treelizard]

Heh, just a little.

You could always intro a "street cloths day" once a month where people trained self-defense in jeans and heels and skirts and impractical things like that.

It might be fun to train in heels. It would keep me on my toes.