Can you talk your way out of a rape?

[Pastyti]

Thats perfectly right, however, there is a world of difference in being of the 'right mindset' and being brainwashed into one. Isn't there?

[Pastyti]

Ony, a question for you please. Isn't it the same socialisation process which has civilised our society over the centuries from being savages?

[kengar]

Great thread!

My daughter belongs to the first Women's fraternity in the United States

This is just baffling. I may have to go so far as to say ridiculous. Maybe impossible. And I shouldn't need to state why.

Glad to see your situation turned out the way it did. I may have lost info between reading and posting, did you do any type of training before this happened or did it feel more instinctive?

The site warriorwoman.org doesn't seem to be up.

"If you cannot avoid the attack, if you cannot verbally deescalate the attack, then you must have only two options -- submit or resist."

(not directed at the person quoted)
The issue of submitting is one I find myself at odds with when speaking to people who espouse the "you don't have to resist your attacker" mindset. Though, this is usually with counselor types who may/may not be attempting to teach SD and not actual SD trainers.

Some people have a fear of being hurt, and believe that if they do not resist an attack they will not be harmed. This is a false belief by many that if a woman just submits then she'll be unharmed. Even if the rapist does not punch her in the face or any other attack, the act of rape is still a violent act. You will still have a physical assault. You will still have physical pain. Not even bringing up of the emotional turmoil.

Sean J
Surprise counterattack is more likely to be successful - and surprise can compensate considerably for lack of skill, if you only have at least 1 or 2 good techniques.

Talking to an attacker can do a couple of things. It first can help you keep a regular breathing patern. It can give you the time to realize what is happening to you and allow you to take action. Then, it may allow you into a better position to deliver your assault. This can be either talking in a submissive manner allowing the attacker to believe you are not going to resist and dropping his guard to your assault/escape. Or as a distraction method.

[Ahsen]

A question to all grapplers

Suppose the attacker as managed to bring his victim down on the floor and is about to rape her
Is it a bad Idea for the woman to wrap her legs around the attacker in a scissorhold, squeeze v .hard inorder to restrict his breathing (leading to unconsious) and at the same time hitting certain parts of the face Ie nose and eyes, so that to distract the attacker.
I know that the strongest part in a womens body is the legs

the reason why i brought this up is simply no one has mention this -is ita bad idea ?

[cakegirl]

You're asking if it's a bad idea to triangle someone who's attacking you? Probably not, as long as they end up unconscious BEFORE they stand up and slam you. (I suspect the slam would be a pretty instinctive response, especially if they are stronger than the person on the bottom.)

[Jeremy Lobdell]

A question to all grapplers

Suppose the attacker as managed to bring his victim down on the floor and is about to rape her
Is it a bad Idea for the woman to wrap her legs around the attacker in a scissorhold, squeeze v .hard inorder to restrict his breathing (leading to unconsious) and at the same time hitting certain parts of the face Ie nose and eyes, so that to distract the attacker.
I know that the strongest part in a womens body is the legs

the reason why i brought this up is simply no one has mention this -is ita bad idea ?

Are you talking about a body scissors from the guard? In theory this could work. Unfortunately it has more to do with the size of the waist of the guy and the lenth of the females legs. In a rape situation, the attacker gives the female the guard position, and squeezing around the waist may work as a distraction, but if the female is trained, like cakegirl, working for a triangle choke is ideal.
Mahalo, Jeremy

[HtTKar]

"If you cannot avoid the attack, if you cannot verbally deescalate the attack, then you must have only two options -- submit or resist."

This is astounding that people would actually teach to submit if you cannot verbally deescalate an attack. What a joke. What horrible people teach this?
What kind of shame would this bring a person if they thought there was more that could have been done to prevent this?

My fiance was once choked by a guy with these same intentions. Thank God she did not try and "verbally" deescalate and then submit. She started unloading punches right into this guys face. The guy screaming as he was getting pumbled is what saved her. People walked into the room to see this guy trying his hardest to defend himself against a rather small woman. She had no MA experience at the time. Maybe it surprised him that she attacked him. Whatever the reason, if it did happen, at least she would know that she did everything possible to ward him off.


Having only two options? "Submit or resist"
The way this is worded makes it seem as though it is inevitable.
What about the other option to attack?

The only time you can plan on talking your way out of rape is if you have an advantage over the rapist (balz in your hand, gun pointed at his chest, police on the phone, etc).

[Ahsen]

Thanks for the info Cakegirl and Jeremy


EDIT:

Wait a minute...
Is a triangle hold can be both headscissor or a bodyscissor
OR
is it just simply a headscissor ?

[Jeremy Lobdell]

triangle choke

Triangle choke is kind of like a head scissors with one arm inside. the foot-ankle position is different and pressure is applied differently from a scissors. I'm sure someone will post a good link so you can see it for yourself. Sorry, but I don't know one off the top of my head. Or you can do a search under the mma and bjj forum, there's probably one listed somewhere in there.

[cakegirl]

Apologies - I've done something to my computer and I can't link websites any more (or put in smileys), so you'll need to cut and paste these sites.

Triangle - the first move is a classic triangle. The technique shown is tranistioning from the triangle to something else:

http://bjj.org/techniques/jen/tech2/

A triangle/armbar:

http://bjj.org/techniques/intheguard/doubleattack/

No-gi triangle -starts from standing, but the end result is the same:

http://bjj.org/techniques/barra/cruz/

(Can anybody tell me what settings I need to change in order to be able to open the popup for inserting websites? I use internet explorer. I've tried resetting my security options to the default, but that didn't work.)

[Garland]

Um...**** submission. If you have something worth defending, you should fucking fight for it, and if it's not worth defending, you should seek a pimp or some other asshole to mistreat you for the rest of your life. STAY IN THE STRUGGLE. YOUR LIFE AND YOUR DIGNITY ARE WORTH FIGHTING FOR, even if your suicidal or somehow try and tell yourself that you have a less than desireable self worth (which is quitter BULLSHIT) , figure this, this asshole deserves to go, so you might ass well **** his shit up, or just outright take his life. (I've had to hear WAY too many fucking rape stories lately where people I went to highschool with, ex-girlfriends, or people I'm just barely meeting have been slipped shit, or assaulted, so if some fucker has the audacity and the gaul to try and do shit up front, or you find yourself able to defend yourself drugged, brutalize him, because chances are he's either done it before or will do it again, a very very small percentage of men are capable of rape, but those that are repeat it again and again, make him incapable of the act ever again, and as far as I'm concerned, he's made a decision to veto the worth of his life.)

I hate to naysay....but a triangle choke could be a wee bit hard to apply with your hands held above your head. My advice is to try and end it before it goes to the ground...by hitting them in the throat and jabbing their eyes...with any object at hand, keys, lamp, computer keyboard, pencils, pens, a brick or a rock, or whatever.
Once you stun them with the initial hit, don't run away or let them recover in anyway, just coninue to bash away until they no longer seem like a threat.

If they do manage to clinch in close, knee to the groin, elbows to the face, finger rake or jab the eyes, thumbs in eyes, bite the nose or ears, or better yet, use your incisors to take a chunk out of their throat, a rule of thumb is to follow the artery that runs down behind the ear, this is the carotid artery, and bite with just your two front teeth, position your body like a fulcrum where you can push them away with your forearms or wrists and your legs, and jerk back with your body weight. Kino Mutai, it's brutal, but works, just try not to get any blood in your mouth, you never know what people have these days.

People don't need martial arts training to be able to bludgeon an attacker to pulp...the trick is suprise and persistance, don't just hit once...
be agressive, don't be attacked and assaulted, I know people don't like to use the word "victim", so don't be one, become the agressive party, as soon as they make the moves that let you know what's going on, go on the offensive.

[Tant01]

Garland>>I hate to naysay....but a triangle choke could be a wee bit hard to apply with your hands held above your head.

Thats the beauty of this strangle technique! I agree with much of your post above, by all means FIGHT BACK with whatever is at your disposal! If however you are trained to exicute this technique from that position, HELL YEAH! This is old school Judo at it's best! Even a girl can do it! Don't go slow and wait for a submission as in training with your fellow students... Strangle him quickly into unconciousness and make your escape! Use what works and that can work well. But it's called Sankaku jime ...

...It's a good strangle, don't underestimate it's lethality...


Edit to note No disrespect intended to any BJJ/GJJ, female or other... It's all good. The BJJ school probably calls it a "double attack" or some such because it can easily be also a shoulder/elbow lock. wonder if any (students) ever consider isolating the neck and also apply neck crank? Perhaps a bit too unsportsman like? Neck crank in Ju jitsu is a break. Not so difficult if you think about it...twisting neckplates!
Sankaku jime limits his mobility to make the eye gouge easier when you have his head there, good way to keep him from biting your leg, if it's your life or his, I'm with ya, take it. Stay SAFE!

[Jeremy Lobdell]

I agree with Tant01. The triangle choke-Sankaku jime was suggested as a better option (in my opinion) to the body scissors. This shouldn't be used to end the sexual attack, but as a way for the victim to control the attackers body and movement while she turns his face into hamburger. The beauty of this move is that it doesn't require strenth, and if you know how to do it, you shouldn't need your hands to put it on, just to tighten it up.

[Tant01]

I agree with Tant01. The triangle choke-Sankaku jime was suggested as a better option (in my opinion) to the body scissors.

This shouldn't be used to end the sexual attack, but as a way for the victim to control the attackers body and movement while she turns his face into hamburger.


The beauty of this move is that it doesn't require strenth, and if you know how to do it, you shouldn't need your hands to put it on, just to tighten it up.

Well, the second sentence is debatable but I think the essence of true Judowaza would be to dispatch him with most efficient technique, even if it's striking him repeatedy about the head and body with a brick. Just say "NIGHT NIGHT TIME!!!" and put him to sleep!
::::blue choked out face XXP:::::: WAZA!!

[Jeremy Lobdell]

And if that doesn't work, you've always got your Austin Powers Judo Chop