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  • gunting funtional or not,resisting opponent

    Hello Burt I recently see your tapes with matt thorton of straightblast gym and it not tecniques of gunting in your tapes, why? gunting is funtional or not ,against a resisting opponent
    thanks you

  • #2
    Originally posted by metaljkd
    Hello Burt I recently see your tapes with matt thorton of straightblast gym and it not tecniques of gunting in your tapes, why? gunting is funtional or not ,against a resisting opponent
    thanks you
    Good question!
    I have found, along with many of my friends, that the gunting done in a boxing structure is difficult to get, puts you in a bad position for boxing, and is very rarely effective in the moment. If I gunting a jab, my hands will not be in position to defend against the cross. The gunting hurts, but at high speed it is difficult to get, and with the adrenaline pumping it may have no effect on the opponent. Remember that it was originally designed to be used with a knife in your hand, which makes it very effective!

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    • #3
      thank you,burt
      Metaljkd

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      • #4
        Originally posted by metaljkd
        thank you,burt
        Metaljkd
        Ditto, I wan't liking the gunting concept but I wasn't putting the idea to the knife.

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        • #5
          There are many knife techniques that have been "translated" to empty hands, but they just don't work well without the blade. Some people teach nerve strikes to the thigh also. Good with a knife, not so good empty handed.

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          • #6
            Burton,

            I didn't see the video, never-the-less; question asked is an interesting one. I'm also interested if Guro Dan expresses the same opinion regarding gunting as you do. You may not know or can't speak on his behalf, but if you guys have discuss this in the past and you care to share it with me I would probably find it helpful, as well as, insightful.

            Also, is gunting and destructions the same? I see gunting or destructions very effective if given the opening because it allow safe entry while disrupting the other persons balance (checking legs, trapping, and moving with forward momentum). Gunting is use with angling too. What are your thoughts?

            Respectfully,

            RAB

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            • #7
              Hi RAB,
              Here is the key: You must try it out for yourself instead of relying upon what others tell you. You are the guy who will use it if you get into a fight, so it is up to you to determine whether or not the technique works for you. How do you do that? By theorizing? Rational thinking? No. These can lead us astray. We must test the techniques in a realistic environment. In other words, put on the head gear, have someone come at you very aggressively with punches. I am sure that you will discover the same thing that everyone else does who actually tests this under considerable pressure. The gunting does not stop anyone cold, thus not affecting his balance, while putting your hands in a postion of disadvantage. Angling is a proper tactic, but if you just angle without a strong shot it does not do much good. Please do yourself a favor and test it for yourself. Aloha!

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              • #8
                I don’t rely on what others tell me. I’m an experienced martial artist and I commented on the subject because you implied that guntting can be done against a knife but not off a jab. Now, if I understood you correctly then I disagree. Firstly, assuming that a person is forced to fight unarmed against a knife opponent and if they can’t gunt off a jab I wouldn’t advise them to try with an arm attacker.

                Theorizing and rational thinking is the energy used to evolve martial arts to what it is today. Of course, if a person is all talk and no play then they will be lead astray. Needless-to-say, training is most important. The question is how does one train? Training should blend mental, physical, as well as emotional aspects because this is how we as humans will experience realistic situations. Anyway, I’m sure if we knew one another there wouldn’t be any disagreements or misunderstanding. I could experience from your prospective and you could from mine. That’s what valued training is setting goals, reviewing experiences, and making changes for improvement. Anyway, thank you for responds and this opportunity to express my thoughts.

                Respectfully,

                RAB

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                • #9
                  Hi RAB,
                  You did misunderstand. I said that the gunting was supposed to be used WITH a knife, not against one. The original motion is meant for knife fighting, not emptyhand fighting.

                  "Theorizing and rational thinking is the energy used to evolve martial arts to what it is today."

                  This is true, which is why most martial arts do not work in real situations. Too much thinking. To know, we must do. This means hard sparring with very few rules. We must examine our sparring with rational thinking, but thinking without hard sparring leads to techniques that don't work.
                  Enjoy your training RAB, and be sure to put on those helmets and go all out!

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                  • #10
                    Burt I agree with you Gunting and defanging is functional when it comes to welding weapons. The problem is and I hear it here and else where as well, people keep making the assumption that gunting is not only feasible but effective while using empty hand self-defense. Now I have a problem with this.

                    Note: I already used this in post in another thread but I think it fits better here, I hope this isn’t taboo or anything.

                    I have spent a good amount of time studying Arnis and always liked the theory or idea of gunting. The idea of punching someone in the bicep as they attacked just felt like it would be effective.

                    Too much depends on perfect timing and guiding his fist into your elbow or slapping the outside of his arm while punching his bicep. Just try this against a good boxer with fast hands it is almost impossible! A parry will work it doesn’t depend on the same fine motor skills then that of a gunt or defang.

                    However I do believe, and my believe comes from experimentation, trials and failures that gunting can only be done if you go on the offensive and:

                    1) Luck
                    2) Attack his bicep before he throws the punch
                    3) Using your forearm bone (ulna) as the striking surface while parrying his punch (painful but won’t demobilize his arm)
                    4) Using low kicks to get the boxer to drop his guard then attack his head-essentially defanging him.
                    5) You have an impact weapon, or an edged weapon that you can attack him with and destroy his arms (or what ever else)

                    I believe I have worked this to a reasonable conclusion that gunting in real combat is a myth.

                    The real key is to attack if you can, because if you’re defending you are already one step behind and you are left playing catch-up, a position you really don’t want to be in. Aggressive attack ...That’s the real key!

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                    • #11
                      How about using elbows as a destruction out of my crazy monkey?

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                      • #12
                        This may influence the one's decision to use, or not to use guntings...

                        http://cssdsc.com/wrapper.php?file=gunting.htm

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                        • #13
                          You're all underestimating how easy it is. I mean, it wasn't that long ago that a "Ninja" on here was telling us all how he could punch incoming punches.........

                          Seriously, thansk for the explanation re gunting. I too felt it was a litle ambitious to say the least. The explanation re the knife helped make sense of it for me.

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                          • #14
                            to add to Mister Richardsons coments regarding the gunting i have personaly found that it can depending on hand position and which gunting used, make for a good entry by causeing a pause if just for a 10th of a second a beat if you will some react to this slight pain and beweilderment just long enough to open them up but i most certainly agree it was invented for knife and is not an end all mister richardson i also ordered your video curriculem off your website and just reveiwed it nicely done and some yrs ago you had made some stick videos i cant find those anywhere do you know where i may find those older vid's i have a kinda collection going of the old stuff by differnt instructors including myself of course lol

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by wong sheung
                              How about using elbows as a destruction out of my crazy monkey?
                              I find it is very easy (and happens almost accidentally) to take punches on the elbows whenfighting in a crazy monkey guard.
                              I'm glad you asked. I was just about to mention it myself.

                              For those who don't know what "crazy monkey" is you should go to the SBG website and check out their street boxing videos.

                              Regards

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