Wing chung Chain punches

[macaco]

Sifu Richardson:

A friend of mine study Wing chung WT since 2 years ago and tell me about his universal solution in a fight with his wing chun chain punch and field right down the centerline and KO his oponent.

Is it funtional or not against a resisting oppoent??
Thanks for all.

[macaco]

I like on what others tell me about it.
Thanks.

[Thai Bri]

I think that WC chain punching can put someone onthe back foot, and then you can capitolose on the situation by hitting him with something harder. But, done the WC way, each punch in the chain is usually pretty weak. So a determined ttacker will just fight right through it.

There are other versions of the chain punch (or "straight blast" as it is often called). Paul Vunak from JKD uses it, and others have their own versions too.

Straight WC, though, is certainly no guaranteed fight stopper.

[Mark-Masters]

Soloution To Chain Punches.

Right, For A Start The Wing Chun Chain Punch Can Be Very Powerful, Depending On Correct Stance and Movement, I Trained At Western Boxing And I Swear Our Trainer Was Pro, And NO WAY did he hit as hard as my wing chun sifu, it's all in technique, plus, a chain punch can be very effective as it throws multiple attacks and is hard to defend against,not many martial artists can stop a chain of punches if you are in the advantagous position, that's my insight anyways.

Mark Masters.

[Thai Bri]

I'm in Manchester, UK. Who is this instructor, and where does he train?

[Mark-Masters]

Sup Thai.

It's Stockport Wing Chun Academy, Across The Road From Stepping Hill Hospital. Dunno, His Full Name, I Just Call Him Sifu - LOL.

[macaco]

I am a bit confuse the Chain Punch Can Be Powerful, like a boxers punches??? i dont think that because the boxers use all the body in his strike.
But if the chain punches are really efectives i will love WT.

[Thai Bri]

It's Stockport Wing Chun Academy, Across The Road From Stepping Hill Hospital. Dunno, His Full Name, I Just Call Him Sifu - LOL.

Mark, can you pm me with a phone number for the guy please? Thanks.

[J Rockwell]

WC Chain punches are effective against an opponent who is not covering the centerline effectively and moves straight backwards. As soon as your opponent effectively covers the centerline or straight line attacks, your straight chain punching is pretty much nullified. Unless, of course, you are ready to change the angles and throw hooks, uppercuts, and overhands into the mix - and then you are no longer straight chain punching.

I think they are a decent tool to use against an untrained person for a few moments. I don't think it's very effective against a trained fighter. A similar but better tool (IMO) is the "boxing blast" that Vitor Belfort and others have used very effectively.

Against opponents who chain punch at me, I cover, change the angle on him, lower my level, and close the distance. I either go directly for a takedown or I would tie him up in a clinch and strike from there.

Best,

Jeff

[Thai Bri]

Jeff, I agree completely.

[VTGreg]

Hi Jeff,

Yes, anyone blindly straight blasting is asking for a good counter. If he has actually punched you then follows up with more straight punches - that would make sense. In a life and death situation a good VT man would have made that first punch more potent by being a punch to the throat, or an eye jab, and then followed with something like a thumb into the eye - but not followed with endless punches. That's barroom fighting. I know that the way I was trained to do VT drills was with placing my fingers around the larnyx, or thumb alongside the eye area, or fingers onto the forehead - so that when I am on auto pilot these will be my responses. I know I'm veering off topic a bit, but I remember Ted Wong telling me about the fight he got in to save his friends life (he died as a result of the fight, because of a heart condition) and he was so mad with himself, as he side kicked the first guy in the chest sending him flying. Well this guy picked himself back up and helped beat on Ted. Ted eventually prevailed but couldn't believe that after 30 years of practicing a kick to the knee he kicked the guy in the chest! So I think one should train as seriously as one can, so that, as in this example, one doesn't just fly forward with chain punches.

[J Rockwell]

ARRGGHH!! I just wrote a long reply, but somehow my account timed out before I could send it and it was erased. I will come back and write it again when I have time. Ah, the joys of modern technology...

[armlok]

"I know that the way I was trained to do VT drills was with placing my fingers around the larnyx, or thumb alongside the eye area, or fingers onto the forehead - so that when I am on auto pilot these will be my responses."

And have you done this against a resisting opponent who likewise is trying to take your head off/maim or kill you? Striking eyes, throat, etc are all fine and dandy, but thinking that one is going to have the fine motor skills to shove a thumb into the eye with out having some sort of control of the opponent is relying on luck or living in a fantasy.
Training to use open hand face-smashes off a boxing structure allows you to hit with power and POSSIBLY get an eye with a finger. The benefit of this structure is you can spar with headgear and MMA gloves using your fists and open hands using what I think is the best striking structure...boxing, AND I sure as shit ain't no boxer. Punching to the throat and punching someone IN the thraot are two very different things. Hands-up and chin down makes hitting a throat iffy, add movent, forward pressure, adrenelin, beer, a full bladder, having to take a dump, lost glasses, low-light, uneven ground, blah-blah-blah, only adds to one's problems. Hell, pro boxxers can't land every punch to an opponent's face and head, last fight I saw had percentages like 60 some-odd percent. Far easier to hit/grab/poke and tickle a throat from the clinch (or ground) where you may have some control over the opponent.

As for the boxing blast, it gives great power and forward pressure, but in most cases you'll get 3 or 4 max, and end up stepping on the guy; or a couple forcing the guy to cover up and turn or change levels. Or best bet knock him out/on his ass where yo can soccer kick or run like hell.

edited to add- can you tell i'm in a mood....gonna go downstairs and make some bullets now

[VTGreg]

Armlok, as I said they are drills, and we do perform them from a control position. Roll hands into inside pak sau, or lop sau, etc. I have practiced the same things in full on chi sau where my partner is trying to take off my head - we hit full on bare knuckle and I have come away with bloody noses, messed up jaws and spit out part of my mouth from these intense training sessions. Everything can go in these sessions - if you can pull them off - I have even used elbows and head butts to great effect. I can't do any harder than this without getting in street altercations. My boxing training, albeit hard, never got me banged up half as bad.

[J Rockwell]

The post I wrote yesterday (which was erased somehow before I could send) pretty much echoed what armlok wrote...albeit more diplomatically.

Eyes, throat, groin, are all ideal targets to hit. But fine motor skills are required to hit them under pressure, and those often go right out the window when things get hairy. The story about Ted Wong using a gross motor movement (sidekick) to strike his attacker in the largest available target which presented itself is a perfect example. He had trained to do otherwise, but in the actual situation, basic tools to basic targets are what came out.

The short-armed range in which chain punches can be used doesn't lend itself to effective striking against someone who is looking to clinch. At the first sign of an attack, I am going to be covering and clinching, and looking to dominate my opponents position and balance - so that I can strike his vulnerable targets while keeping mine safe, or throw him to the ground.

I have trained in systems using chain punching, and the only time I (or anyone else I saw) was able to make it work in sparring was when that opponent was not familiar with the technique or was not ready at all. While it's true that this may exactly be the case in a "barfight" scenario - the opponent is unskilled or unready - if that's the case, wouldn't anything work? After training in both a VT/JKD type delivery system and a boxing delivery system, and I simply feel that the latter is more versitile, efficient, and effective.

"So I think one should train as seriously as one can, so that, as in this example, one doesn't just fly forward with chain punches."

I agree completely. And that training has to include sparring with progressive resistance against a non-compliant opponent, who can attack you using all the ranges. I simply don't trust myself to be able to execute "deadly" techniques that I am not able to use in sparring in an adrenaline-filled "street" situation. Because while it is true to an extent that "you fight how you train", in my experience it is even more true that you fight how you spar. That is where your true "autopilot" lies.

Best,

Jeff