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For Burton : JKD is made up of 26 different syles or not?

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  • For Burton : JKD is made up of 26 different syles or not?

    Burton,

    Do you believe JKD is made up of 26 different styles - as you see listed early on in Paul Vunak's book 'JKD Concepts & Philosophies', etc?

    As the Bruce Lee Foundation is saying it definitely is not made up of 26 styles - http://www.bruceleefoundation.com/index900.html or go to bruceleefoundation.com and look at JKD then Faq's.

    Also in Teri Tom's book 'The Straight Lead' it points out quite a lot it is not made up of 26 styles.

  • #2
    This is a good example of what NOT to do in JKD. Who cares what JKD was made up of? That was a long, long time ago. Instead, everyone in JKD should be exploring every art they can, trying to absorb useful techniques. In order to know what is useful, people must spar HARD with good fighters from different styles. Instead of spending time to argue about what systems made up Bruce Lee's personal style 36 years ago. It is now August of 2006. We have BJJ, wrestling, MMA, etc. to be testing our skills with. These JKD people must liberate themselves from the classical mess of only doing what Bruce Lee himself did, and find their own personal way. This is only done through fighting and sparring. It takes a lot of humility to do so, but they would all be much happier if they did.

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    • #3
      Burton,

      I appreciate what you are saying, but it seems JKD has been an excuse to study any old art & call it JKD, see my long post here (saves me writing it all again):-

      http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/s...ad.php?t=21368

      Regarding for example JKD DVD's & books - any old thing released under the JKD name.

      Do you think people are adding arts or techniques that fit the structure of JKD as Bruce Lee laid out?

      Bruce took a dim view of Thai Boxing , but those in Inosanto JKD Concepts practice the whole art, Bruce also took a dim view of Kali, but they practice the whole art, etc. More to the point - many of the techniques in those systems do not fit the structure of JKD e.g. rear leg Thai kick - directness/non telegraphic/economy of motion/strong recovery (you miss leaves you vulnerable as you go past the target or do a full 360 degree turn, not good in a street fight) - it is none of those things. Powerful does damage of course , but so does a wide haymaker with the hands. Bruce saw many things like rear Thai kicks & did not include them in JKD for a reason.

      Also I think it sad people are looking at what Bruce Lee did as being dated - even with all you can do Burton & as good as you are in all those arts BJJ, etc , Bruce would take you out in under 5 seconds, you must know that I assume?

      If people are adding things that fit the structure of JKD it is a good thing, but JKD is not an excuse to do any old art under the sun; there has to be some criteria used to evaluate techniques.

      Besides BJJ became big through UFC , etc , if Capoiera had beat everyone, no doubt at all Dan Inosanto would have added Capoiera to his curriculum. Trends shouldn't come into it.

      And for yourelf Burton - what arts have you really researched that Dan Inosanto has not? As if you are only doing arts he recommends that is a 'classical mess'. Dan hasn't studied for example Korean martial arts in depth, whats stopping you doing so or anyone under him? There is a lot more effective stuff out there than the several core arts Dan Inosanto teaches.

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      • #4
        Burton often seems to do that - go all shy & not respond after you reply to his post.

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        • #5
          Too much gossip and hearsay. Bruce took a dim view of this and that. Who told you that? I research arts the others have not gone so deeply into in JKD. Greco Roman wrestling, Zulu stickfighting, etc. You need to get into the gym with real fighters and actually fight instead of gossiping about people and speculating. It is much more satisfying. Bruce Lee was about testing everything in sparring, and adding what makes your sparring better. That is what I do.

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          • #6
            Burton,

            It is fact Bruce took dim view of Escrima and Thai Boxing, I quote Bruce Lee on Escrima 'It's Bullshit!' , not hearsay at all. Maybe you should read pg.229 of 'Bruce Lee A Warrior's Journey' by John Little on Escrima & Bruce Lee in relation to it.

            Same goes for Thai Boxing he certainly took a dim view of it, Dan Inosanto acknowledges he did as well. Despite what some say he never took a single techniquef rom Thai Boxing , not one!

            So what you are saying basically Burton is the founders views don't count for much on JKD? That even if he looked at something like Thai Boxing took nothing from it & took a dim view of it, nowdays it is good to study the whole art of Thai Boxing & call it part of JKD?

            Again if Capoiera had dominated the early UFC's ,Dan & those under him would have rushed to learn it.

            As for other stuff you have trained Wrestling not really that different to what others in Inosanto lineage are doing - they do Shootfighting, BJJ, some do Greco Roman, Western Wrestling, etc. Zulu Stickfighting not exactly renowned is it, nor is the Maori stick fighting in New Zealand, for being practical.

            Would Bruce Lee not play with you in real fight or hard sparring Burton or anyone in Inosanto's group incl. Dan himself? YES of course he would.

            Can you do me huge favour put a video clip up of you on your website or youtube.com of you doing 'The Straight Lead' Bruce Lee's lead hand punch , because I have not seen a single person in Inosanto's lineage that can do it well , explosively or fast , or really powerful, nor with proper form. Maybe you can? So please post that clip. Only take a few secs to film, or maybe you have existing one already.

            If you cannot do a simple technique like 'The Straight Lead ' well, it shows part od the problem - 'jack of all trades, master of none' learning 10,001 new techniques without really mastering and perfect the basics.

            Ron Balicki / Paul Vunak, etc all do 'The Straight Lead' with poor form, not very fast or powerful, and they do a Western Boxers jab more than BL's punch. They clearly have not practiced the basics hard or perfected them. BL spent countless hours to really perfect that technique amongst many others. But lets see yours?

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            • #7
              There was a wonderful quote from Bujinkan founder Masaaki Hatsumi when he was asked about some political arguments between students: "Shut up and train."

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              • #8
                Exactly Kirves. (I met Hatsumi- very nice man, complementary toward our training.) Today I had a two-hour fifteen minute workout. About one hour was spent working kickboxing, clinch, and ground drills. About half an hour working on equipment (focus mitts, kicking shield). About forty five minutes of sparring, kickboxing, clinch, and ground, striking always allowed. That was before going to the gym to do forty minutes of cardio, lifting weights, and stretching. Call me crazy, but I think that was a great day of martial preparation.

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                • #9
                  Burton,

                  See above - where can I find that video clip of you doing 'The Straight Lead'? As Bruce Lee taught it. As I have never seen one , no not one do it explosively or correctly from JKD Concepts.

                  If that clip is not out there on the web or on one of your videos, please film a clip & lets see it?

                  What have you got to hide.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ASHTANGA05 View Post
                    Burton,

                    See above - where can I find that video clip of you doing 'The Straight Lead'? As Bruce Lee taught it. As I have never seen one , no not one do it explosively or correctly from JKD Concepts.

                    If that clip is not out there on the web or on one of your videos, please film a clip & lets see it?

                    What have you got to hide.
                    The question is, "What has he got to prove?" Obviously, he is an accomplished martial artist, who yet at the same time is humble and doesn't go around video taping his techniques to feed his ego. For that matter he doesn't go asking other artists to video themselves to prove how "good" their technique is or how "pure" their style is in relation to what was originated by the founder.

                    How old are you, two? "C'mon prove it!". Next thing you will be daring him to video himself. Grow up and check your ego at the door. Your attitude and comments reflect your maturity and life experience.

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                    • #11
                      Ashtanga, if the straight lead is such a priority to you, maybe you'd better spend your spare time drilling it some more, instead of continuing silly discussions like this.

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                      • #12
                        As Burton advocates study any old style & its JKD, I'm merely asking if he is proficient in Jun Fan as he terms it & can do a simple technique well like 'The Straight Lead'? Vunak, Ron Balicki , etc most certainly can't! They aren't explosive, and perform it wrong.

                        If JKD Concepts is not 'Jack of all trades, master of none' & practicing numerous martial arts doesn't mean you have neglected to master the basics, then Burton must have a good Straight Lead.

                        What video Burton of yours do you perform the Straight Lead on??? You have a ton out , so surely one of the most basic techniques of Bruce Lee's martial art must be in one of them?

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                        • #13
                          Burton,

                          Still waiting on that DVD title that shows you doing basic JKD technique - The Straight Lead?

                          Or post www. link with clip.

                          If you tell me title of one of your DVD's, I'll even buy it just to see. Vunak, Ron Balicki, etc all poor weak Straight Lead & sloppy technique, but lets see yours maybe you can do it well?

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                          • #14
                            AFAIK Burton's earlier JKD vhs-videos (was it Unique Publications?) are no longer available, and the current curriculum is more towards his current marketing slogan "High Performance MMA". Correct me if I'm wrong though... So one would need to get his hands on the early vhs-tapes from somewhere.

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                            • #15
                              Burton ,

                              What video/DVD do you do The Straight Lead in??? Title / manufacturer?

                              Even if deleted I can still get it, I know many people.

                              Why are you staying so silent on this?

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