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  • #31
    Originally posted by punkmonk
    The Gracie team was defeated in a closed door match my Wing Chun some years back, I know this because I know the people that were involved.
    Can you provide some details of this match when/where it occurred and who was involved. As I understood there was challeges, talk and letters but never an agreement of true NHB and thus no fight.

    Also, no need to qulaify the effectiveness by saying its better than another style. You have some issue with BJJ from your other post, but leave WC out of your issue.


    • #32
      Garland BREAK-IT-DOWN HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH that post was funny as shit LMAO.

      This is an all star thread: Boar, Garland Thi and Jubaji


      • #33
        Originally posted by kingofward34
        When you say wrestler you confuse it with striker because.....

        The freakin WWE is what you think wrestling is. I totally understand now "Brother". Spandex and cartoon characters is your type of wrestling.

        Whatcha gonna do when the MACHO MAN comes for you BROTHER!!!!!

        Thats great I finally understand you now dude.

        Did you come down off your 'stupid' high yet?


        • #34
          Originally posted by jubaji
          Did you come down off your 'stupid' high yet?

          As soon as you come down off your high horse. if you fat ass hasn't squished him yet.


          • #35
            Let's have a moments silence. We will all misss him.
            Last edited by Thai Bri; 02-14-2007, 03:20 AM.


            • #36
              From the rec.martialarts FAQ

              (Contributor: Marty Goldberg -

              Intro: One of the most popular forms of Gongfu.

              Origin: China


              Wing Chun was an obscure and little known art until the mid twentieth
              century. While multiple histories of the art do exist (some with only
              minor discrepancies), the generally accepted version is thus:

              he style traces its roots back over 250 years ago to the Southern
              Shaolin Temple. At that time, the temple a was sanctuary to the
              Chinese revolution that was trying to overthrow the ruling Manchu. A
              classical martial arts system was taught in the temple which took
              15-20 years to produce an efficient fighter.

              Realizing they needed to produce efficent fighters at a faster pace,
              five of China's grandmasters met to discuss the merits of each of the
              various forms of gongfu. They chose the most efficient techniques,
              theories and principles from the various styles and proceeded to
              develop a training program that produced an efficent fighter in 5-7

              Before the program was put into practice, the Southern temple was
              raided and destroyed. A lone nun, Ng Mui, was the only survivor who
              knew the full system. She wandered the countryside, finally taking in
              a young orphan girl and training her in the system. She named the
              girl Yimm Wing Chun (which has been translated to mean Beautiful
              Springtime, or Hope for the Future), and the two women set out
              refining the system.

              The system was passed down through the years, and eventually became
              known as Wing Chun, in honor of the founder. The veil of secrecy
              around the art was finally broken in the early 1950's when Grandmaster
              Yip Man began teaching publicly in Hong Kong, and his students began
              gaining noteriety for besting many systems and experienced opponents
              in streetfights and "friendly" competitions. The art enjoyed even
              more popularity when one of its students, Bruce Lee, began to enjoy
              world wide fame.


              Most important is the concept of not using force against force, which
              allows a weak fighter to overcome stronger opponents. Generally, a
              Wing Chun practitioner will seek to use his opponent's own force
              against him. A great deal of training is put in to this area, and is
              done with the cultivation of a concept called Contact Reflexes (see

              Also of importance are the use of several targeting ideas in Wing
              Chun. The Mother Line is an imaginary pole running vertically through
              the center of your body. From the Mother Line emanates the Center
              Line, which is a vertical 3D grid that divides the body in to a right
              half and a left half. Most of the vital points of the body are along
              the Center Line, and it is this area that the Wing Chun student learns
              to protect as well as work off of in his own offensive techniques.
              Also emanating from the Mother Line is the Central Line. The Central
              Line is seen as the shortest path between you and your opponent, which
              is generally where most of the exchange is going to take place.
              Because of this linear concept, most of the techniques seek to occupy
              one of the two lines and take on a linear nature.

              This leads to the expression of another very important concept in Wing
              Chun: "Economy of Motion". The analogy of a mobile tank with a turret
              (that of course shoots straight out of the cannon) is often used to
              describe the linear concept.

              Only two weapons are taught in the system, the Dragon Pole and the
              Butterfly swords. These are generally taught only once the student
              has a firm foundation in the system.


              The way the art produces efficent and adaptble fighters in a
              relatively short time is by sticking to several core principles and
              constantly drilling them in to the student, as well as taking a very
              generic approach to techniques. Instead of training a response to a
              specific technique, the student practices guarding various zones about
              the body and dealing genericly with whatever happens to be in that
              zone. This allows for a minimum of technique for a maximum of
              application, and for the use of automatic or "subconcious" responses.

              Much training time is spent cultivating "Contact Reflexes". The idea
              is that at the moment you contact or "touch" your opponent, your body
              automaticaly reads the direction, force, and often intent of the part
              of the opponent's body you are contacting with and automatically
              (subconciously) deals with it accordingly. This again lends itself to
              the generic concept of zoning.

              Contact Reflexes and the concept of not using force against force are
              taught and cultivated through unique two man sensitivity drills called
              Chi Sao.

              The concepts of guarding and working off of these lines and zones are
              learned throught the practice of the three forms Wing Chun students
              learn, and which contain the techniques of the system: Shil Lum Tao,
              Chum Kil, and Bil Jee.

              Another unique aspect of the system is the use of the Mook Jong, or
              wooden dummy, a wood log on a frame that has three "arms" and a "leg"
              to simulate various possible positions of an opponent's limbs. A
              wooden dummy form is taught to the student, that consists of 108
              movements and is meant to introduce the student to various
              applications of the system. It also serves to help the student perfect
              his own skills.

              Weapons training drills off the same generic ideas and concepts as the
              open hand system (including the use of Contact Reflexes). Many of the
              weapon movements are built off of or mimic the open hand moves (which
              is the reverse process of Kali/Escrima/Arnis, where weapon movements
              come first and open hand movements mimic these).


              Currently, there exist several known substyles of Wing Chun. Separate
              from Yip Man are the various other lineages that descended from one of
              Yip Man's teachers, Chan Wah Shun. These stem from the 11 or so other
              disciples that Chan Wah Shun had before Yip Man.

              Pan Nam Wing Chun (currently discussed here and in the martial arts
              magazines) is currently up for debate, with some saying a totally
              separate lineage, and others saying he's from Chan Wah Shun's lineage.

              Red Boat Wing Chun is a form dating back from when the art resided on
              the infamous Red Boat Opera Troup boat. Little is known about the
              history of this art or its validity.

              At the time of Yip Man's death in 1972, his lineage splintered in to
              many sub-styles and lineages. Politics played into this splintering a
              great deal, and provided much news in the martial arts community
              throughout the 70's and 80's. By the time the late 80's/early 90's
              rolled around, there were several main families in Yip Man's lineage.
              To differentiate each lineage's unique style of the art, various
              spellings or wordings of the art were copyrighted and trademarked
              (phonetically, Wing Chun can be spelled either as Wing Chun, Wing
              Tsun, Ving Tsun, or Ving Chun). These main families and spellings

              Wing Tsun -- Copyrighted and Trademarked by Grandmaster Leung Ting.
              Used to describe the system he learned as Grandmaster Yip Man's last
              direct student before his death. Governing body is the International
              Wing Tsun Martial Arts Association, and the American Wing Tsun
              Organization in the U.S.

              Traditional Wing Chun -- Copyrighted and Trademarked by Grandmaster
              William Cheung. Used to describe a very different version of Wing
              Chun he learned while living with Yip Man in the 1950's. Includes
              different history of lineage as well. Governing body is the World
              Wing Chun Kung Fu Association.

              Ving Tsun - Used by other students of Yip Man, such as Moy Yat. This
              spelling was considered the main one used by Grandmaster Yip Man as
              well. It is also used by many of the other students, and was adopted
              for use in one of the main Wing Chun associations in Hong Kong -- The
              Ving Tsun Athletic Organization.

              Wing Chun - General spelling used by just about all practitioners of
              the art.

              A World Wide listing of Wing Chun Kwoons (schools) is maintained by
              Marty Goldberg ( and posted periodically to
              rec.martial-arts. A mailing list (open to all students of Wing Chun)
              is also maintained by Marty and Rob Gillespe at

              Wing Chun Video Sites:
              I gathered these from other posts in this forum. If anyone knows of additional WingChun clip sites, please add them here.


              Some good "How To" clips.

              A few nice informational videos, more 'background' than 'howto'.

              About a dozen video clips, appear to have been gathered from many places. Qualitys eh, in many. Worth a look.

              Also of note is Sifu Grados. His stuffs impressive, as its usually got a nice beat and shows some good stuff. It is however more of a comercial than anything educational.

              He also offers a "Technique of the Month" section, and this is much more informative than his videos. They are clear, and done at a 'teaching' spead. A bit short, but most definately worth a look.

              These are animated GIFs, not videos.

              This ones in German (I think)..the videos are low quality, and I've seen them floating around the net.

              Additional links:
     - many broken links

     - short clips

     - WC Rap Video

              This website is for sale! is your first and best source for all of the information you’re looking for. From general topics to more of what you would expect to find here, has it all. We hope you find what you are searching for!

     Forms videos, def. cool.

     many broken links

     Lots of clips, also a CD of clips is available for sale.

              Additional Videos:

              Learn about Dato Wira Louis Ng Chun Hau, the visionary founder of Public Gold, who has revolutionized Malaysia's gold trading industry with his innovative leadership.

              A little contribution from Sweden:

              New clip from Ving Tchun System, Sweden

     Clipsize: 29 MB

              Dai-Sifu Reimers Wing Tsung in "Galerie" there are some new videos.

     58 MB


              • #37
                "Do not hurt where holding is enough; do not wound where hurting is enough; do not maim where wounding is enough; do not kill where maiming is enough; the greatest warrior is he who does not have to kill"
                ~The Oath Of Peace - The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant by: Stephen R. Donaldson


                • #38
                  Ipon, I train WC, and prefer it. I have no issues with WC.


                  • #39
                    Wing Chun Philosophy
                    In Ying Gi Ga Wing Chun, we recognize that Wing Chun was created as and should be instructed as a combat art. We recognize as well that the practitioners of Wing Chun will hopefully spend only a small fraction of a percent of time in their lives fighting. It is important, therefore, to be able to use the same concepts and principles used in fighting to better other non-combat areas of your life. Each fighting principle can also be interpreted philosophically. We believe that the practice of Wing Chun, and an understanding of its principles and philosophies, should be a catalyst to putting each practitioner in the driver's seat of his or her life. The development of great fighting abilities should give each of us the ability to be kind, compassionate, and loving by overcoming the fears that often manifest themselves as anger and hate. The truly competent warrior is not boastful. The truly secure person is free from the need to impress others with his or her physical prowess and free from the need to have the approval of others. He or she can be understanding, acceptant, and kind without the fear of being thought weak for his or her kindness.
                    The reason for the philosophy portion of our homepage is to help each of you tap into the inner power that you all have and to help you to take control of and responsibility for your own life. It is designed to help you recognize how much more powerful positive energy and accomplishing goals of a positive nature is, as opposed to negative thought and deed. Our worst enemy is often ourselves. Look inside of yourself and overcome your demons of fear and insecurity and you will find a path to a happier life. No matter how many people you can beat in battle, you will find no lasting happiness in bringing harm to others. Competent fighting skills are important but should be used to protect yourself or those you love in times of danger. You must choose your battles wisely. Your fighting skills should be a catalyst to enlightenment. By helping you to gain strength of character and confidence, your skills should give you peace of mind, therefore eliminating insecurity and giving you the capacity to be at peace and in harmony with others.
                    I hope you enjoy and benefit from our web page. It is my hope that it will help you on the most important battlefield... Life !!!
                    Grandmaster Philip Holder, PhD


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by punkmonk
                      The details of a closed door fight are left to those who were there. I'd have to ask permission, and I doubt they'd give it for a online form.
                      And as for BJJ, I don't like the art. It's an opinion, and a peference. If you choose to get heated about someone elese's points of view, and preferences, then hang with people who always agree with you.
                      Punkmonk -(assuming this was in response to my statement) I didn't ask you to agree or disagree with anything. My point was regarding your topic of WC, I too am a WC stylist. If you are discussing WC just discuss that when you start by comparing styles especially when you had such a strong opinion of oneit detracts from from your post.

                      Regarding the close door match I would agree if this were a chinese match up. I would find it hard to believe that any Gracie would have a closed door match as they would want the world to know of there victory. The cultural honor system is not the same. As I said, this was supposed to happed between emin and some Gracie but never occurred there are letters flying around the internet (ThiBri actually may have copies if you ask). I don't know if this was the match you were referring to but if so you may need to question the validity of your sifu's information.


                      • #41
                        Don't worry about the Gracies and Emin.


                        • #42
                          I realize that about my post. I've had several people state that WC is crap and that MMA an BJJ is the top arts. Responding to their comments was probably a mistake. My view on BJJ has stood since they first came out. I was studying Japanes Ju-Jitsu at the time and the techniques used in BJJ are not techniques that I consider useful in a street confrontation.
                          Too much time spent on one attacker. One on one in a ring it's great. It seems to have been designed for UFC and sport, in this regard it is a strong art. It depends on what you are training for.


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by punk
                            I've found other boards that are much more informative, and the people share what they know without being an ass about it.

                            Then go! No one here will miss you.


                            • #44
                              I am not a particular "backer" of BJJ or MMA, though I certainly think they have their uses.

                              Unlike WC.

                              Once again folks, the "evidence" of Wing Chun / Tsun is a mysterious closed door fight where there is nothing to say that it actually took place.

                              Why do people believe this bollocks? Why do WC people want to shout about how their art can defeat others..... yet only ever "prove" it behind closed doors?

                              Beats the hell outta me. Unlike my WC instructor years ago who tried to humiliate me in class by smacking me round the chops. He didn't take the return favour very well at all......


                              • #45
                                WC (VC/VT/WT or whatever way you want to write it)
                                the MA urban legend generator
                                Alway ready to claim they are better then others but never prepared to prove it in public ( I think the reason why the Boztepe-Gacie fight never took place)
                                And even if they tape something, they seem to see things other can't ( Boztepe/Cheung "fight")

                                Now we could blame all of WC for it but personally I think it is Boztepe
                                His actions and his words aren't always the same ("I'm not looking for trouble" after he went to a cafe filled with nazi skinheads and started a fight)

                                Oh wait, Boztepe is in punkmoonk's lineage, explains a lot