They Beheaded Him Too!!

[Tom Yum]

Are you telling me that the enviromental wacho's are preventing drilling in Alaska because they're concerned that not enough oil would be pumped out?

If you're trying to get me to say that pumping in ANWR would not fully substitute the oil from not-so-friendly arab nations; I've got no problem doing that. But it is better that we become more indepentant that remaining stagnant correct? Also Russia does have vast oil fields and seeing how poor they are things could be worked out to get their oil production up. Also once iraq is more secure (it'll take awhile) we'll have another source of oil to compensate for not pumping saudi oil.

Hear's a link to projected oil production:
http://www.petroleumnews.com/pnarch/031005-02.html

No ~ Correlation isn't causation in the case of irrational activists and consultants. The activists are pretty much against man's progress and use of natural resources; the consultants realize this is a morsel in the 4 course meal.

[bvermillion]

I was not promoting using the atomic bomb in Iraq and was already aware of the fact that if alot go off the radiation would be carried in air currents back hear. I was defending its use against japan though.

And I wouldnt like to turn Iraq into a gaping hole either because many people there were oppressed and had nothing to do with Sadam or the terrorists. There are those that did and I'd like to see them wiped out.

For starters Adam and Even were the only people on earth, and then their sons just happened to find wives. The whole world was flooded in Noah's Ark but Noah happened to find a mountaintop which wasn't flooded. These are just ones that come to mind immediately.

First the atom bomb stuff i posted was just in general the only part directed to you was the question that you answered. If you believe that adam and even were created by God why couldn't he create wives for there children. The bible surely doesn't document every action of God. And as far as the world being flooded please read your bible before you make accusations. Noah didn't find land until sometime after the rain had stopped. He was out there for a long time the water eventually receded. If I wasn't lazy I would look up the exact time he spent on the ark but I do know it was plenty of time for the water to go down.

[m.artist]

First the atom bomb stuff i posted was just in general the only part directed to you was the question that you answered. If you believe that adam and even were created by God why couldn't he create wives for there children. The bible surely doesn't document every action of God. And as far as the world being flooded please read your bible before you make accusations. Noah didn't find land until sometime after the rain had stopped. He was out there for a long time the water eventually receded. If I wasn't lazy I would look up the exact time he spent on the ark but I do know it was plenty of time for the water to go down.

i believe it was 40 days and nights

[bvermillion]

It rained for 40 days and 40 nights but he was in the ark for much longer then that.

[Hikage]

You're both wrong anyway. God asked Noah to take his wife, his sons, and their wives.. Gen 6:18b:

"But I will establish my covenant with you, and you will enter the ark-you and your sons and your wife and your sons' wives with you."

Courtesy of bible.com

-Hikage

[krys]

Okay Krys do you really think that the Japanese would have surrendered, they thought that if they fought long enough that the kamakazi (divine wind) would com and save them. They undertook massive preparations for our invasion.

The Japanese gave sign to surrender from February 1945, but they wanted to surrender without loosing too much face..
One of the reasons the Japanese started the war (with the allies) was because they didn't have enough mineral ressources to keep their economy running... There was actually a kind of oil embargo if I remember well. With the marine blockade, bombings they couldn't have survived for long.... anyway the russians were ready to invade and it wouldn't have mattered much to Stalin to loose millions of soldiers if needed to take Japan. I have no doubts the Japanese would have preferred to surrender to the USA than be occupied by the communists.


Here see what Eisenhower, Mac Arthur and the top brass thought about the usefulness of the bombings:

http://www.doug-long.com/quotes.htm

[bvermillion]

You're both wrong anyway. God asked Noah to take his wife, his sons, and their wives.. Gen 6:18b:

"But I will establish my covenant with you, and you will enter the ark-you and your sons and your wife and your sons' wives with you."

Courtesy of bible.com

-Hikage

The whole wives and husbands thing we were talking about wasn't even about noah. We were talking about Adam and Eve's children have spouses.

[Hikage]

Argh

bvermillion,

Ack!! Sorry, I read them so fast that I must have merged them into one running thought. Sorry about that.

However, H2H has posed a question that I hope to answer. I've heard and delt with this sort of comment on here before. H2H, I'm a little ashamed of you with this one. Normally, you represent America's finest youth, however in the selections that you used to point out contradictions in the Bible, you are in error. It serves to demonstrate how often those who mean to put down the Bible really have not done their research. In this case, you have not studed the writing style and the culture of the day, nor the context into which it was written.

The writing style and culture of the Bible state that only things that are important are written down. The Bible speaks of Cain and Abel as the two sons, and you are right in saying that they get married and even move into existing cities with little or no mention of from where those people came. However, there are 2 problems here. 1) Culture of the day dictates that only the male geneologies are important enough to write down. 2) Only that which is most important is recorded. The other sons and daughters that Adam and Eve MUST have begat are not recorded because they are quite simply not important enough. Keep in mind, Adam and Eve both lived to be over a thousand years old. To think that they only had 2 children is sheer lunacy. They just happened to be the first 2 to kill each other.

Furthermore, to prove my point, there are other instances where stories are left untold that are just not important enough to finish. For example, after Christ died, we have all heard of the great storm, the earthquake, and the curtain over the tabernacle splitting. Often not repeated is that several prominant religious zealouts who had previously died, were at this time resurrected and were seen preaching in the city streets.

51At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split. 52The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.
54When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, "Surely he was the Son[5] of God!"

What happened to them? After that day, did they return to their ancestral homes to finish out a second life of eating pork, sleeping in, and attending mass on Sundays? Did they crawl back into their graves? What did they look like? Were they missing hands and other parts that had decayed? All curious questions that I for one would love to know. However, compared to the gloriousness of Christ's death, it's just not important.

As for Noah, you stated that you believed the entire earth was flooded yet he still found a mountaintop. Did you actually read the account? After flooding the earth, the waters receded.

Genesis 8
1 But God remembered Noah and all the wild animals and the livestock that were with him in the ark, and he sent a wind over the earth, and the waters receded. 2 Now the springs of the deep and the floodgates of the heavens had been closed, and the rain had stopped falling from the sky. 3 The water receded steadily from the earth. At the end of the hundred and fifty days the water had gone down, 4 and on the seventeenth day of the seventh month the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat. 5 The waters continued to recede until the tenth month, and on the first day of the tenth month the tops of the mountains became visible.

Do your homework man. Do your own thinking. Don't let something influence your mind that you heard some other fool say. To quote starwars, "Who is the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?" You are responsible for the choices you make in this life, "So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God (Romans 14:12)."

I would love to see how else you feel the Bible in is error. Know this, out of ALL the religious works, the ONLY one that can be proven 100% uncontradictory is the Bible. For starters, there are over 400 predictions about Christ's death alone in the Old Testament written by many different authors over many thousands of years. All of them are found true in the Gospels. "Ok, so someone wrote all these tales and wrote them with different dictions to make them sound like different authors." Impossible. We have versions of the first five books that are too old to contain the later books of the Old Testament. We then have other chronological pieces that add in the other books as they are written over time.

H2H, I know this thread is not about religion, but I will not allow you to defame THAT book. I eagerly await what else is contradictory.

I'm surprised with you,

-Hikage

All passages courtesy of Bible.com.

[bvermillion]

bvermillion,

Ack!! Sorry, I read them so fast that I must have merged them into one running thought. Sorry about that.

However, H2H has posed a question that I hope to answer. I've heard and delt with this sort of comment on here before. H2H, I'm a little ashamed of you with this one. Normally, you represent America's finest youth, however in the selections that you used to point out contradictions in the Bible, you are in error. It serves to demonstrate how often those who mean to put down the Bible really have not done their research. In this case, you have not studed the writing style and the culture of the day, nor the context into which it was written.

The writing style and culture of the Bible state that only things that are important are written down. The Bible speaks of Cain and Abel as the two sons, and you are right in saying that they get married and even move into existing cities with little or no mention of from where those people came. However, there are 2 problems here. 1) Culture of the day dictates that only the male geneologies are important enough to write down. 2) Only that which is most important is recorded. The other sons and daughters that Adam and Eve MUST have begat are not recorded because they are quite simply not important enough. Keep in mind, Adam and Eve both lived to be over a thousand years old. To think that they only had 2 children is sheer lunacy. They just happened to be the first 2 to kill each other.

Furthermore, to prove my point, there are other instances where stories are left untold that are just not important enough to finish. For example, after Christ died, we have all heard of the great storm, the earthquake, and the curtain over the tabernacle splitting. Often not repeated is that several prominant religious zealouts who had previously died, were at this time resurrected and were seen preaching in the city streets.

What happened to them? After that day, did they return to their ancestral homes to finish out a second life of eating pork, sleeping in, and attending mass on Sundays? Did they crawl back into their graves? What did they look like? Were they missing hands and other parts that had decayed? All curious questions that I for one would love to know. However, compared to the gloriousness of Christ's death, it's just not important.

As for Noah, you stated that you believed the entire earth was flooded yet he still found a mountaintop. Did you actually read the account? After flooding the earth, the waters receded.



Do your homework man. Do your own thinking. Don't let something influence your mind that you heard some other fool say. To quote starwars, "Who is the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?" You are responsible for the choices you make in this life, "So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God (Romans 14:12)."

I would love to see how else you feel the Bible in is error. Know this, out of ALL the religious works, the ONLY one that can be proven 100% uncontradictory is the Bible. For starters, there are over 400 predictions about Christ's death alone in the Old Testament written by many different authors over many thousands of years. All of them are found true in the Gospels. "Ok, so someone wrote all these tales and wrote them with different dictions to make them sound like different authors." Impossible. We have versions of the first five books that are too old to contain the later books of the Old Testament. We then have other chronological pieces that add in the other books as they are written over time.

H2H, I know this thread is not about religion, but I will not allow you to defame THAT book. I eagerly await what else is contradictory.

I'm surprised with you,

-Hikage

All passages courtesy of Bible.com.

Very good Post

[Tom Yum]

There are some contradictions in the bible, but many of these contradictions are sometimes quotes that are taken out of context from the chapter it came from and stem from the desire to denounce it.


On a side note:

I have seen Christians say and do malicious things. Doesn't mean Christianity is foul; it means that people are. All men are sinners - but trying harder as a Christian means you try to clean up your act by following and living by the Bible.

Some people set excellent examples of being good Christians and never once mention their beliefs - it could be because they do things subconsciously or don't want to be in the spotlight, but they do wonderful things and very few people see this. A hidden jewel to their testament...

[Hikage]

Okay when I did CCD they told you that its your actions that count and that you've got to abide by the ten commandments and not commit other sins. BUt then a while later they started talking about how you've got to be good on the inside too even though at first they said that you didnt and they started talking about 8 something or other. I can't remember.

Anyways Eve was mentioned dispite the fact that she was female but was that because they were created together as a pair and was more important to the story?

Anyways this thread has managed to branch iinto three seperate topics; religion included so I wouldn't worry.

As far as Eve goes, don't be stupid. She was the first to eat of the fruit (aka SIN). The first woman. She is the reason that women struggle through so much pain in childbirth. You're grasping at straws now. But please, keep trying.

I'm not exactly sure where there is a Biblical contradiction in your CCD observation. It seems more like whoever taught you doesn't have his or her act together and I blame your church. Since you mentioned CCD, I am asuming that you are Catholic. I will admit that I have some bones to pick with the Catholics. Their doctrine differs greatly from that of the Protestants. As for the CORRECT view on how to live your life, here's TRUTH on what the Bible says...

All men have sinned and are therefore in need of God's salvation to avoid eternal damnation....

Romans 3
22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in[ 6:23 Or through] Christ Jesus our Lord.

We choose salvation by accepting Christ alone as payment for our sin.

Romans 5
8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

2 Corinthians 5
21God made him who had no sin to be sin[1] for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Footnotes
5:21 Or be a sin offering

John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[1] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Upon salvation [accpeting that Christ alone can pay those wages of sin through his death on the cross] the Spirit of God enters a man and changes him.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!

This is an excellent way for Christians to be able to know who has truly been saved. The Christian turns from his old life style in a way that is just not normal. Perhaps the greatest example of this is Paul's life itself. Before becoming a Christian he pursecuted the church. He oversaw the stoning of Stephen, an early Christian. While on the road to Damascus, Jesus appeared to him and Paul's conversion was secure. He ended his opposition to Jesus and actually began to risk his own life to promote Christianity. Look at the following list of what he has endured. Why would he suffer these things if he didn't see Christ on the road?

2 Corinithians 11
I have worked much harder, been in prison more frequently, been flogged more severely, and been exposed to death again and again. 24Five times I received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one. 25Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, I spent a night and a day in the open sea, 26I have been constantly on the move. I have been in danger from rivers, in danger from bandits, in danger from my own countrymen, in danger from Gentiles; in danger in the city, in danger in the country, in danger at sea; and in danger from false brothers. 27I have labored and toiled and have often gone without sleep; I have known hunger and thirst and have often gone without food; I have been cold and naked. 28Besides everything else, I face daily the pressure of my concern for all the churches. 29Who is weak, and I do not feel weak? Who is led into sin, and I do not inwardly burn?

All this previous matter is not said to bash your brow with my Bible. However, I need it in order to explain WHY the following statements are true...

Because we are these new creations in Christ, we are no longer slaves to sin and to this world, but we choose to become slaves to Christ...

Romans 6
15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey--whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. 18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
19I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness. 20When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. 21What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in[2] Christ Jesus our Lord.

Furthermore, no longer is the old law (i.e., the Old Testament commandments), but we now follow Christ's law in the new Covenant in His blood:

1 Corinthians 9
20To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the {old} law), so as to win those under the law. 21To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. 22To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some.

Therefore, we strive to live our lives according to Christ's law. As I said earlier, there is no way that we can possibly live that life (for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God) and it is not about what we do to EARN our way into heaven during this life...

Ephesians 2
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

HOWEVER, it is the mark of a saved man or woman(as I said earlier) that you will see a change in manner in which they live his or her life. You will see works in their lives, however it is important to understand that these works are not saving in and of themselves ( NOT BY WORKS, SO THAT NO ONE CAN BOAST).

James 2
26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

Works in that sense means following Christ's law and doing that which he taught. We have all heard 'love your neighbor as yourself.' That is a large part of Christ's teaching. All his teaching can be found throughout the Gospels and then it is explained through the remainder of the New Testament (excepting Revelation, that is another story entirely).

So, in review. We as Christians know that we need salvation from the pitiful, sinful lives that we life. Those sinful lives deserve death. But we choose to accept Christ for our only means of obtaining salvation. Through salvation, we change and become different than we were before. Through this change, we have the desire to accord ourselves with Christ's law {i.e., love one another as yourself} and we follow Him. Furthermore, we do works here on earth to serve Him, NOT to attain salvation.

And that my dear boy, is how we as people are called to live.


This does not directly address your specific observation. This is because your observation has many holes in it, and I see why you were confused. I thought it best to start from scratch. If you need a different form of explanation, please let me know.
I recognize that I am bit wordy. Please tell me if I do not make sense.

-Hikage

PS> Once again all passages are courtesty of Bible.com

[bvermillion]

What denomination are you hikage? I am baptist and agree with everything you are typing.

[Hikage]

H2H, ahhhh... I understand what you are saying. I think. You do deserve an apology... I'm sorry for blowing up. Now, lemme make sure that I understand what you are saying withthis whole Eve thing.

.............................


Ok, I admit, I don't know what you're asking. I understand that you're off the female thing. But I'm confused on the "not as a seperate act and was more important" line.

Bvermillion:

I am really I suppose non-denominational. I go to a Bible Church in Lancaster, PA. So if anything, I am a Bible-Churchian. The easist way to put it though is that I believe in truth and truth is what is said in the Bible. I put myself towards studying it and believing what it tells me.

-Hikage

[osopardo]

...H2H, ... you represent America's finest youth...

As you're an educator, I will take that observation as being well-informed and qualified.
















All hope is lost!

[Hikage]

Ok, was one part of why Eve was mentioned because she was created with Adam? That's the question that I am answering.

Yes, that was a major part of it. Let me go back and split hairs so that we fully understand each other. Eve was not really created with Adam. She was created some time after Adam. The Bible is quiet on exactly how long after Adam's creation that Eve came along. Adam was put into a deep sleep, God took one of his ribs and formed Eve out from it to create the first woman. I don't know about you, but that seems like something worth recording.

Does this answer your question and do you or anyone else have any more "contradictions"/ questions?

-Hikage

PS> According to Bill Cosby (rough paraphrase)

"God charged Adam with naming all the animals. He was something said "pig" and so it was. Adam spoke to God and told him that all the animals were named, but didn't find a suitable companion among all the animals created. So God created Eve and set her before Adam. Adam stared all googly-eyed, jaw dropped to the floor and saliva oozing from his mouth. He, half-dazed, uttered the words "WOOO MAN!" and so she was named."