Time for Putin to Nuke Chechnya?

[Ahoym8e]

^ I understand where your coming from, and it's a good train of thought, logically speaking. You are searching for the root cause of all this mess, as well people need to do.

I am putting forth the idea that some atrocities simply go too far, and all out eradication must begin.

You used good analogies, so let me try one as well: Not All ku klux klan members lynch people, but if there were a renewed outbreak of serious KKK violence, and the (non active) majority of the members were harboring the actual perpetrators, don't you think the entire organization would need to be dismembered? Or do you think segregation, etc ought to be reinstated to appease the kkk guys so that they're not so mad and hopefully quit being violent?

I admit that I am from a bloodlusty faction, but I really have seen nothing good come out of radical islam. From terrorrism to female genital mutilation, those guys have to go.

Since dying in the pursuit of Jihad is the shortcut to eternal life with allah, let's speed their transcendence...

[EmptyneSs]

I admit that I am from a bloodlusty faction, but I really have seen nothing good come out of radical islam. From terrorrism to female genital mutilation, those guys have to go.

nothing radical is good. but not all muslims are radical. there are alot who are just regular people.

[EmptyneSs]

hey thx for proving my point yet again by posting a reply full of personal attacks, hateful remarks, and irrelivent points just like u always do.

[osopardo]

uh, whatever u say dude^

[EmptyneSs]

do whatever u want dude.

[osopardo]

uh, whatever u say dude^

[EmptyneSs]

h+h, u keep mentioning peace talks while all your posts are personal attacks. u said i have a lot in common with terrorists when ur posts are full of anger and hate while i try to be tolerant and accepting and see issues from all sides instead of just one. i dont know if u noticed, but u have turned this thread into u vs me just like u have done with a few others. u keep mentioning how much smarter u are, but u cant post a single reply that isnt full of fallacious personal attacks and fallacious arguments. people disagree all the time, but if u really were as mature as u keep telling people u are, u would be able to post a reply that was more than just a weak personal attack.u would be able to post ur opinion while respecting the opions and views of others. i disagree with others and others disagree with me, but i can still talk about things without having to attack others and try to put them down. this is were i know u are still a kid. look at excessive force, me and him can debate while respecting eachothers different opinions, u on the other hand cannot. if someone has a different view from u, u attack them and put them down. thats why responding to u is pointless. but hey i guess osopordo thinks ur pretty tight.

[eXcessiveForce]

i dont beleive the killings of civilians to be justified in anyway ever. although i did want to mention that it aint just chechnyans who do this, russians have been doing the same to chechnyans for years and years. both sides are to blame. hate breeds hate.

But at this point they are under the lawful control of russia. When ever you choose to have an insurection there are consequences. Either these terrorists are in line with public opinion or they are not. It they are, then that means those chechnyans of like mind are supporting and tolerating their actions. If they are not, then they should be helping russia find these groups and eliminate them completely. As with the Taliban, if you harbor and condone the actions of terrorists, then you should not be allowed to exist, and now they do not. Iraq was similar, refuse to live by the expectations of the civilized world or be elimiated. Their is a difference between those who are repressed by extremists and those who harbor them.

also i dont think actions of sub groups reflect groups as a whole. sometimes they do but not always. these issues are never just black and white bro. for example, u mentioned earlier that muslims tend to not police the radicals very well. well what about the iraqis? they couldnt police saddam could they? are all iraqis evil becuase saddam and his crew were? there is for sure many bad people in iraq, but to label them all evil is wrong.

Actually the Iraqis tried to kill Saddam many times. They just needed help. those who support saddam and his government, those who take up arms against freedom are evil.

for example, are all catholics bad since many priests now have been found guilty of sexually abusing young boys? no . they are a small minority who do not reflect the rest of the group. i think to say all muslims are bad is wrong, becuase there are alot of them who want nothing to do with the violence. there are many true muslims out there that realize this extremism only hurts everyone as a whole and doesnt solve anything. it jsut causes more bloodshed.

Here is a huge difference, Catholics were extremely angry and wanted the priests punished. It was the church itself that harbored the priests and did not take action. When the parishoners found out there was a reckoning. This still is going on. They went to court, They appealed to the church. They did not go out and execute the priest or all the priests.

and about groups of people within a subculture retaliating...well thats kinda funny u mention that, because thats exactly what the whole school takeover thing in russia was about. i was reading up on this tragic event, and one of the children who was held captive said when she asked a terrorist why they were doing this, the terrorist responded something like " we are doing this because russians killed our children." so u could say these terrorists were retaliating because of violent acts commited against them. im not saying what they did was ok, becuae it wasnt. it was cruel and fucked up, but the russians do the same to the chechnyans. its a fucked up cycle of violence just like the palistinian/israeli conflict. each side retaliates for crimes commited agains one another and all it does is bring more bloodshed.

Just because one of the terrorists responded this way does not mean anything. People see thing from their perspective. I have not heard of Russian military holding children hostage in schools and killing them. People die in wars, even women and children, but when you target them specifically you are not true to any cause, you are simply after revenge and terror.

As for israel, they do not attack their neighbors and attempt to kill their children. They go after those who are funding, or leading the attacks on them. Israel could wipe out Palistine in a matter of hours and no one on the planet would be able to stop them in time. But they are dealing with those who come into their country and kill people who are simply living there. Not soldiers, not political figures. People are being killed who are shopping, riding buses. This type of action only hurts the Palastinian cause. They lose support in the world and risk what they do have.

[EmptyneSs]

wow dude look at h+h, that guys pissed. look how angry i make him.

excessive force, the problem is that chechnya is not under russian control at all. chechnya is very lawless now, and there are different factions in their. russia didnt have a terrorism problem before, it was a military problem, since the guerillas werent targeting civilians. but now, there are many terrorists who have gone to chechnya and used the chechen cause as an excuse for terrorism. alot of this i think is because there are lots of jews in russia, and muslim terrorists will do anything to strike at jews. they said in the news about the russian school takeover that most of the attackers werent even chechen, they were arabs. chechnya is lawless as hell, and there is all kinds of corruption on all sides, and this allows terrorsts to come in and do whatever they want.


also u mentioned that u havent heard of russians doing things like killing school children. the fact is russians have been doing all kinds of horrible things to chechens. in fact russia has tried many times to ethnicly cleanse chechens. please check out these sites that provide some info to back this up, becuase the russians really have done some horrible things to the chechnens and still do.

http://www.amnesty.org/russia/chechnya.html

http://www.noborder.org/item_archive.php?id=96

http://www.phrusa.org/research/chechnya/chech_rep.htm

theres tons and tons of sites that discuss the extreme human rights abuses that russians commit against chechnya. russians specifically targeted civilians many many times.

again, im not taking sides here, but i did want people to see the other side as well.

[eXcessiveForce]

I looked at your sites, the first two (both by amnesty international) do not speak of a directed couse of action against women and children. It was the soldiers in the field. In the first, specific information was not provided as to the events described. only that these type thing occur.

The second do not reference minorities but rather the juvenial legal system as it stands in russia. Also it states that in one instance cited the person was arrested for their acctions.

There is a huge difference here. The people are breaking the law and face prosecution if they are caught.

For instance, the prison situation in Iraq with the US it was not the orders of the US but the people involved. People in the chain of command and at home did not approve and those people are being treated as criminals.

Systems may not be perfect, but there is a huge difference in what happens on the field of battle and those who seek out children and women to kill for no gain.

[eXcessiveForce]

oh, and the third site did not work when I clicked on it.

[EmptyneSs]

I looked at your sites, the first two (both by amnesty international) do not speak of a directed couse of action against women and children. It was the soldiers in the field. In the first, specific information was not provided as to the events described. only that these type thing occur.

The second do not reference minorities but rather the juvenial legal system as it stands in russia. Also it states that in one instance cited the person was arrested for their acctions.

There is a huge difference here. The people are breaking the law and face prosecution if they are caught.

For instance, the prison situation in Iraq with the US it was not the orders of the US but the people involved. People in the chain of command and at home did not approve and those people are being treated as criminals.

Systems may not be perfect, but there is a huge difference in what happens on the field of battle and those who seek out children and women to kill for no gain.

bad things happen on battle fields for sure, but what is happening to chechen civilians isnt just stuff happening on the battle field. they are in fact being specifically seeked out by russian troops to be gang raped, tortured, and killed by troops for their own amusement. these abuses arent new either, they have been known for a long time now and the international community is becoming more and more worried.

i know what ur trying to say. these troops arent terrorists who are commiting these acts for the sake of terrorism or because they are religious fundamentalists. however, arent these people just as bad as terrorists? they kill rape and torture innocent people without hesitation and obviously do not care for human life just like terrorists dont. the have the same mentality. arent these civilians who are brutalized and killed in their own homes being terrorised too ?