Terri Shiavo, your opinion

[MatthewAlphonso]

...
This modern notion that one gets to heaven just by being good is ridiculous and it is the greatest deception. There is nothing in ANY religion that I have encountered to support this.

-Hikage

Actually, for a while, there was a big debate within the many Christian sects over this idea. Some believed you had to accept Christ, the others said that your works were what mattered, not your beliefs. And it is not a modern notion this debate was a few hundred years ago.

Furthermore, many pagan traditions accept that all paths are valid, and that all you have to do is live well according to your faith and you go to heaven.

Also, according to what I am told, in the Mormon faith you need not accept Christ as your savior. So long as you accept god and live well, you get to heaven, just a lesser heaven.

So, don't speak unless you know.

Sorry I know this seems a bit off topic but I don't like religious bigotry or willful ignorance

[Hikage]

Actually, for a while, there was a big debate within the many Christian sects over this idea. Some believed you had to accept Christ, the others said that your works were what mattered, not your beliefs. And it is not a modern notion this debate was a few hundred years ago.

Furthermore, many pagan traditions accept that all paths are valid, and that all you have to do is live well according to your faith and you go to heaven.

Also, according to what I am told, in the Mormon faith you need not accept Christ as your savior. So long as you accept god and live well, you get to heaven, just a lesser heaven.

So, don't speak unless you know.

Sorry I know this seems a bit off topic but I don't like religious bigotry or willful ignorance

I'll admit, I don't much care for religious bigotry or willful ignorance either. Neither of which am I guilty.

Allow me to further my statement so you can fully understand the background of what I mean...

When I say people today have this notion that they can just be good and get into heaven, I am referring to the mountains of people that have really no religious action in their life. These are the people that if you asked them, "If you died today, and went to heaven, and God himself asked you 'Why should I let you into heaven?" They would reply with "because I was a good person."

This is the idea that I am referring to. The debate between Christians (or should I say Catholics and everybody else) over works and faith does not apply to this. The philosophy to which the Catholics hold (as best I understand it) is that Christ died for our sins, and we need to accept him as our savior. From this point of salvation, it is up to the individual to maintain a sinless life and to repent for those transgressions which are sure to arise. Also, in order to counter-balance those transgressions, good works are necessary. The protestants hold (and myself) that this is rubbish. Paul says, "8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith–and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God– 9not by works, so that no one can boast. (www.bibleonline.com Ep2:8-9) The one thing that will be absent from heaven will be human boasting about how they got there.

As for the pagans.. I suppose that I made an assumption that the God and heaven to which Toudiyama was referring were not those of the pagans, as the two are fundamentally different. However, looking back it is possible seeing as Toudiyama did use the lower-case "god" en lieu of "God." However, it is more likely that this was a lack of respect for the almighty, further fueling my notion that Toudiyama was buying into modern "I'll make it because I'm a good person."

The mormons -- Same story here. You said it in your own words. Once you've accepted God, then you live a good life and make it to heaven (note similarity to Catholosism.) No going to heaven only by being nice.

I'll restate my point... I was referring to people who believe that they can get to heaven SOLEY on being a "good person." Not having any religious tendencies, not by relying on Christ, but only because he or she was a "good person." I refer back to my origonal post:

Did she come to Christ when she was more able? Did she acknowledge that she could never live the life that God had intended? Did she realize that she needed to call on Christ to take her sins with him when he went on the cross and nullify them when he conquered death through his ressurection? Is there evidence of this in her life?

None of this has been evidenced in her life, as far as I've seen, and my origonal statements stand true.

A. She is probably suffering torment in hell.
B. This modern notion that one gets to heaven just by being good is ridiculous and it is the greatest deception. There is nothing in ANY religion that I have encountered to support this.

Now, I want to know how I am being ignorant and a bigot.

-Hikage

[MatthewAlphonso]

I'll admit, I don't much care for religious bigotry or willful ignorance either. Neither of which am I guilty.

Allow me to further my statement so you can fully understand the background of what I mean...

When I say people today have this notion that they can just be good and get into heaven, I am referring to the mountains of people that have really no religious action in their life. These are the people that if you asked them, "If you died today, and went to heaven, and God himself asked you 'Why should I let you into heaven?" They would reply with "because I was a good person."

This is the idea that I am referring to. The debate between Christians (or should I say Catholics and everybody else) over works and faith does not apply to this. The philosophy to which the Catholics hold (as best I understand it) is that Christ died for our sins, and we need to accept him as our savior. From this point of salvation, it is up to the individual to maintain a sinless life and to repent for those transgressions which are sure to arise. Also, in order to counter-balance those transgressions, good works are necessary. The protestants hold (and myself) that this is rubbish. Paul says, "8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith–and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God– 9not by works, so that no one can boast. (www.bibleonline.com Ep2:8-9) The one thing that will be absent from heaven will be human boasting about how they got there.

As for the pagans.. I suppose that I made an assumption that the God and heaven to which Toudiyama was referring were not those of the pagans, as the two are fundamentally different. However, looking back it is possible seeing as Toudiyama did use the lower-case "god" en lieu of "God." However, it is more likely that this was a lack of respect for the almighty, further fueling my notion that Toudiyama was buying into modern "I'll make it because I'm a good person."

The mormons -- Same story here. You said it in your own words. Once you've accepted God, then you live a good life and make it to heaven (note similarity to Catholosism.) No going to heaven only by being nice.

I'll restate my point... I was referring to people who believe that they can get to heaven SOLEY on being a "good person." Not having any religious tendencies, not by relying on Christ, but only because he or she was a "good person." I refer back to my origonal post:



None of this has been evidenced in her life, as far as I've seen, and my origonal statements stand true.

A. She is probably suffering torment in hell.
B. This modern notion that one gets to heaven just by being good is ridiculous and it is the greatest deception. There is nothing in ANY religion that I have encountered to support this.

Now, I want to know how I am being ignorant and a bigot.

-Hikage

I apologise, it was the tone of your message, plus me not exactly having a bright and cheerful day mixing together. I have been a bit stressed as of late I am sorry if I offended you.

[Hikage]

I apologise, it was the tone of your message, plus me not exactly having a bright and cheerful day mixing together. I have been a bit stressed as of late I am sorry if I offended you.

I appreciate your humility. No offense taken. Rare quality.

-Hikage

[MatthewAlphonso]

hehe, I don't have as much humilty as it seems, I just know when to apologise.

But anyway, back on topic. I'm glad that Congress decided not to get involved. it just would have dragged on forever, a big waste of taxpayers money that could be put to something more useful, IE: reconfiguring our Intel systems, properly arming and armouring our troops. And hey, why not improve the education system and throw Pres. G.W. Shrubs "No Child Left Behind" act and use something that works.

[chalambok]

Those who really think George W Bush was motivated by some 'Christian' desire to prolong a life: while Governor of Texas he signed into law the 'right' of a hospital to remove feeding tubes from those who could not afford to pay for care.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

I will not go to heaven nor will I go to hell since I do not believe in a god of any kind at all
I do not want an eternal life, I like that my life has an end and therefore am not gonna waste my time worshipping some fictional entity for the sake of an afterlife


As for writing god instead of God..... I used them both but don't mean anything alse than to stress the word when I capitalize in the middle of a sentence

[Hikage]

I will not go to heaven nor will I go to hell since I do not believe in a god of any kind at all ...

Talk about willful ignorance.

Just because you do not believe something, does not mean it won't happen.

-Hikage

[chalambok]

Hikage, Carl Sagan said it better when he said: "The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

[MatthewAlphonso]

Hikage, you could also look at it the other way, just because you believe something doesn't mean it will happen.

But enough of that. I believe, being the dirt worshipping pagan that I am, whatever you believe here happens there. Who is to say that a loving God, or gods, will not grant him the end of existance that he yearns for?


All god's are the same God. All paths are valid.

[Hikage]

All god's are the same God. All paths are valid.

How can you make a statement like that? Most major religions claim exclusivity. How can they possibly all lead to the same place?

-Hikage

[Hikage]

whatever you believe here happens there.

Do you have any major philosopher who would back up that idea? Please, I don't want to come off as condescending, but that doesn't make any sense.

Why are you placing your belief in an afterlife in a religion that offers you little more than a "what if?":

Who is to say that a loving God, or gods, will not grant him the end of existance that he yearns for?

How many people would play the lottery if you had no assurance of getting the money if you won. What if the philosophy was "What is to say that the government will not grant you $5,000,000 if all your numbers match up?"

The Christian religion is the ONLY religion that offers to it's people assurance of eternal life and is the ONLY religion (and call me a bigot, but I invite you to prove me wrong) that can stand up to scrutiny. It is a matter of historical fact that Christ lived and was crucified. No educated historian disputes that fact. It is up to you to decide if you believe he was raised from the dead.

-Hikage

[Sensei Saki]

Where would I get major philosopher who would back up that idea?
But I do have
A lot of friends on the web.Thank you for your request.

What would you rather be doing?Tim Mousel programmed me for placing your belief in an afterlife in a religion that offers you little more than a what if.I've chatted with half a million people. I can talk to about 20 or 30 people at once.Try it and see.Who told you that?placing your belief in an afterlife in a religion that offers you little more than a what if is a matter of historical fact that Christ lived and was crucified. I suppose that makes sense.Are you serious?
My brain uses AIML to format responses to your inputs, but I don't have one for that.Should I know
up to you to decide if you believe he was raised from the dead is?
My brain uses AIML to format responses to your inputs, but I don't have one for that.

[MatthewAlphonso]

I never said that all faiths lead to the same place, on;y that they are all correct. the Lord and Lady (in their many forms) have appeared to all of the races of the Earth, they merely have different names. It's like the Hindus say, "there is a whole, withing the whole is a whole, if you take the whole out of the whole, it is still the whole." In other words, God appears in many forms but it is still God, even the Christian Satan is only a manifestation of God

And the idea of most Faiths claiming exclusivity is in itself flawed. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are really the only faiths that claim that (and even Islam says that Jews and Christians will go to heaven)

[Toudiyama[NL]]

The Christian religion is the ONLY religion that offers to it's people assurance of eternal life and is the ONLY religion (and call me a bigot, but I invite you to prove me wrong) that can stand up to scrutiny. It is a matter of historical fact that Christ lived and was crucified. No educated historian disputes that fact. It is up to you to decide if you believe he was raised from the dead.

-Hikage

As it is up to you to decide if you believe he was the son of a god or just a leader of a sect
It is also up to you to decide if the bible is a book of facts or a book of factbased fiction
As it is up to you to either believe in creation or in evolution


If a god excists and he or she wants me to believe in him or her, he or she knows what to do and take my challenge ( which is not, to put an end to all suffering but to create an animal/being that only posseses 50% or less of our DNA instead of 99.99%) if the challenge is met and won, I will be the most fanatic preacher you can find, untill that time I'm still a fanatic Atheist