Reputation point Survey

[kingoftheforest]

Rbsd

Hence the "reality" in reality based SD

I'm not trying to knock what you do dude. If you love it thats great.

But understand I love what I do too. I'm to old to play games in a fight anymore. When we train we train with the idea being "If you wind up in a position that you can't defend you self from your dead or captured". I'm not into getting my head sawed of with a dull Bowie knife on national T.V.

So yes we train to win our lives. We don't tap, all of us here are smart enough to know when the other person lost. If you get a RNC on me you don't apply, we assume since we all train together we understand that "mofo your dead as Trotsky here".

Game over. No taps. If your gonna break an arm it better be on the way to doing something else like breaking a neck. People have lost limbs in combat and still went home alive. The limb taker didn't.


I'll give up a limb to stay alive if I have to...but I train not to.

Sorry if I got a little hardcore on ya there Sammy..but I still love your crazy ass on here lol.

[SamuraiGuy]

Hence the "reality" in reality based SD

I'm not trying to knock what you do dude. If you love it thats great.

But understand I love what I do too. I'm to old to play games in a fight anymore. When we train we train with the idea being "If you wind up in a position that you can't defend you self from your dead or captured". I'm not into getting my head sawed of with a dull Bowie knife on national T.V.

So yes we train to win our lives. We don't tap, all of us here are smart enough to know when the other person lost. If you get a RNC on me you don't apply, we assume since we all train together we understand that "mofo your dead as Trotsky here".

Game over. No taps. If your gonna break an arm it better be on the way to doing something else like breaking a neck. People have lost limbs in combat and still went home alive. The limb taker didn't.


I'll give up a limb to stay alive if I have to...but I train not to.

Sorry if I got a little hardcore on ya there Sammy..but I still love your crazy ass on here lol.

I get your point, but "since we all train together we understand that "mofo your dead as trotsky here". Thats the EXACT same thing as tapping out. Instead of the person applying the RNC assuming they would be able to put you out. The person says "ok mofo I'm dead as Trotsky here" by tapping.

You still tap out man, even if you have your knife as a last defense you still have the tap out system in place.

My last defense to getting stomped in the face might be running away, or, I guess LAST resort is turtling.

You just add another point to the list in defense, either attack with the knife, if that doesnt work run away, if that doesnt work turtle. You still have to admit defeat at some point, you can't assume your knife is gonna stop them, thats where the reality comes into play.

Same thing can be said about RNC, my defense to the RNC, may be protecting the neck, trying to pull the hands off when its sunk, then attempting a last ditch foot lock. (I hope your aware of some of these, they are quite valuable especially against the untrained).

The difference is your defense to the RNC, may be protecting the neck, trying to pull the hands off, then stabbing the mofo. Or probably stabbing before. The point is if my defenses dont work in training, I have to tap out, if your defenses dont work in training you have to "tap out" , or I guess if you like to say you never tap out, you can say your opponent "realizes your dead as trotsky".

Of course it wouldnt be wise to actually stab your way out of an RNC in training, but even if you could, stabbing someone doesnt NECESSARILY ( I assume it would) mean they are going to release it.

See my point, you still tap out, even if you want to call it "the trotsky"

[treelizard]

Question for people who DO tap out: Have you ever stopped before the other person taps out because or they look like they're gonna die? I did this once and the guy thanked me afterwards but I told him it was the last time I would do that...because I can't be expected to try to get the technique done correctly AND try to monitor whether he's actually getting hurt but not saying anything, kinda hard to juggle those two things and not the way I want to train...

Also I'm trying to learn when I am tapping out too soon. I tapped out the other day because something felt like something was twisting funny, even though the guy didn't have the hold on right. I told him so and let him go again, but I wonder what that fine line is--not wanting to tap out too soon because then your training partner isn't getting the drill in, but not wanting to wait too long to tap out because then you won't be able to train for a good long time (or in my case, I had to be really careful because I had to do a presentation the next day and wanted both my arms and both my legs to be functional).

I bet a lot of this I'll figure out with time, but interested in thoughts.

[BoarSpear]

I get your point, but "since we all train together we understand that "mofo your dead as trotsky here". Thats the EXACT same thing as tapping out. Instead of the person applying the RNC assuming they would be able to put you out. The person says "ok mofo I'm dead as Trotsky here" by tapping.

You still tap out man, even if you have your knife as a last defense you still have the tap out system in place.

My last defense to getting stomped in the face might be running away, or, I guess LAST resort is turtling.

You just add another point to the list in defense, either attack with the knife, if that doesnt work run away, if that doesnt work turtle. You still have to admit defeat at some point, you can't assume your knife is gonna stop them, thats where the reality comes into play.

Same thing can be said about RNC, my defense to the RNC, may be protecting the neck, trying to pull the hands off when its sunk, then attempting a last ditch foot lock. (I hope your aware of some of these, they are quite valuable especially against the untrained).

The difference is your defense to the RNC, may be protecting the neck, trying to pull the hands off, then stabbing the mofo. Or probably stabbing before. The point is if my defenses dont work in training, I have to tap out, if your defenses dont work in training you have to "tap out" , or I guess if you like to say you never tap out, you can say your opponent "realizes your dead as trotsky".

Of course it wouldnt be wise to actually stab your way out of an RNC in training, but even if you could, stabbing someone doesnt NECESSARILY ( I assume it would) mean they are going to release it.

See my point, you still tap out, even if you want to call it "the trotsky"

turtle up huh? Thats the "I give" we dont have here dude, our rule is hard and fast, "DIE BUSY." no freakin quarter, You aint taking me alive, if we arent willing to die over it, we dont fight, no kids here

Sure people occasionally get obvious arm breaks in class just about the time the "victim" starts shredding them with the knife in the other hand...Ive also seen a pocket knife thrown into the face of a guy applying a leg lock in a streetfight...didnt make leg locks seem so cool to me after that...

[Tant01]

To break... or not???

Question for people who DO tap out: Have you ever stopped before the other person taps out because or they look like they're gonna die? I did this once and the guy thanked me afterwards but I told him it was the last time I would do that...because I can't be expected to try to get the technique done correctly AND try to monitor whether he's actually getting hurt but not saying anything, kinda hard to juggle those two things and not the way I want to train...

Also I'm trying to learn when I am tapping out too soon. I tapped out the other day because something felt like something was twisting funny, even though the guy didn't have the hold on right. I told him so and let him go again, but I wonder what that fine line is--not wanting to tap out too soon because then your training partner isn't getting the drill in, but not wanting to wait too long to tap out because then you won't be able to train for a good long time (or in my case, I had to be really careful because I had to do a presentation the next day and wanted both my arms and both my legs to be functional).

I bet a lot of this I'll figure out with time, but interested in thoughts.

Have FUN with it! Judo is about MUTUAL welfare and benifit. Play nice!

Tapping is good because with a decent strangle hold they won't be able to scream out in pain or even gurgle helplessly... Tap tap tap... But a loud OWCH DAMMMIT! will tell you it hurts if they can still breath.

Say "UNCLE"! LOL


Yes, I have let go of stubborn or ignorant players before they tap out. There are signs to look for that can indicate a TKO. Both arms reaching out as if to "push" something away without much motor control. The eyes roll into the back of the head or the color blue around the lips and face...

Other times you can "feel" the tension on a joint and with practice you will know when it's about to give or break. (Don't break your friends) There is only a few pounds of torque between a swift submission and a debilitating injury so take it EASY on yourself and others. Unless you need to break something! Then by all means tweak it hard! Destructions are sweet.

[BoarSpear]

Have FUN with it! Judo is about MUTUAL welfare and benifit. Play nice!

Tapping is good because with a decent strangle hold they won't be able to scream out in pain or even gurgle helplessly... Tap tap tap... But a loud OWCH DAMMMIT! will tell you it hurts if they can still breath.

Say "UNCLE"! LOL


Yes, I have let go of stubborn or ignorant players before they tap out. There are signs to look for that can indicate a TKO. Both arms reaching out as if to "push" something away without much motor control. The eyes roll into the back of the head or the color blue around the lips and face...

Other times you can "feel" the tension on a joint and with practice you will know when it's about to give or break. (Don't break your friends) There is only a few pounds of torque between a swift submission and a debilitating injury so take it EASY on yourself and others. Unless you need to break something! Then by all means tweak it hard! Destructions are sweet.

Nice post dude, I was taught if you needed the opponent to tell you he was in trouble you still didnt understand your art.

[SamuraiGuy]

turtle up huh? Thats the "I give" we dont have here dude, our rule is hard and fast, "DIE BUSY." no freakin quarter, You aint taking me alive, if we arent willing to die over it, we dont fight, no kids here

Sure people occasionally get obvious arm breaks in class just about the time the "victim" starts shredding them with the knife in the other hand...Ive also seen a pocket knife thrown into the face of a guy applying a leg lock in a streetfight...didnt make leg locks seem so cool to me after that...

Okay so you dont turtle that doesnt mean you dont tap, you attacked my idea of turtling when the other guy is kicking you in the head and nowhere to go, thats all well and good, and I like the idea of not giving up, but that still doesnt mean you dont tap out.

And sure you can knife my leg if I put you in an armbar, but how long would it take for me to break your arm, all of about 1 second, then I can either get off of you and work on the knife/kicking you in the head, or take mount and control the knifing arm. Obviously getting stabbed isnt fun, but the person isnt just gonna not break your arm because your stabbing them. Would you even have time to get the knife out, I assume you'd be working to pull it off, but anyone with decent ground skills should be able to control your hands enough to prevent that, especially if your knife is at your hip/waist, or in your pocket.

I see it going like this, person has mount or side control, takes your arm , breaks your arm, you've now got your knife out, they create distance, you've got a broken arm and a knife. It may not be your leg but a broken arm still hinders your running. Also the "throwing a knife" at someones face when they have you in a leg lock, how many people can throw a knife well enough to end a fight from lying on their back while their leg is being ripped off. We're not all Carl Atienza you know.

For someone who is so concerned about reality, I think your taking this, "well I could of just stabbed you, and then you would ahve been done" approach. "well you may have broke my arm but I would have stabbed you"... "well you may have stabbed me, but I broke your arm".. Try to be realistic here.

[treelizard]

Also the "throwing a knife" at someones face when they have you in a leg lock, how many people can throw a knife well enough to end a fight from lying on their back while their leg is being ripped off. We're not all Carl Atienza you know.

LOL!! Like Guro Carl would ever end up on the ground!!!!!

[Garland]

...okay...hate to break this up all non-sequitor style...but...

this is the best sound in the WORLD!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kHjJqyU4lw&search=muay%20

[Tant01]

Sure you will...

SG... If I may? You're a little out of your element here.

Being cut (or stabbed) has a ... Unique effect on a person. The spontaneous reaction to almost any serious wound is to first cover the wound with your hand(s). In the process of information by the "reptilian" part of your brain you will take a moment and then you'll want to visually confirm the seriousness of the wound, you'll move your hands to look at it. There won't be any "I'll finish breaking your arm" Macho BS. You'll be in survival mode trying to get AWAY from the thing that cut you.

But don't take MY word for anything, eh?

[Garland]

SG... If I may? You're a little out of your element here.

Being cut (or stabbed) has a ... Unique effect on a person. The spontaneous reaction to almost any serious wound is to first cover the wound with your hand(s). In the process of information by the "reptilian" part of your brain you will take a moment and then you'll want to visually confirm the seriousness of the wound, you'll move your hands to look at it. There won't be any "I'll finish breaking your arm" Macho BS. You'll be in survival mode trying to get AWAY from the thing that cut you.

But don't take MY word for anything, eh?

It is highly possible that somebody won't notice they've been cut for a minute.
If they're already sweating...and they don't see the weapon, it could take even longer. Initially you don't feel the cut, you just feel warm and wet. Then it takes even longer to register. That is when the panic sets in, when somebody gets it, knows that they just got sliced or stabbed.

[BoarSpear]

It is highly possible that somebody won't notice they've been cut for a minute.
If they're already sweating...and they don't see the weapon, it could take even longer. Initially you don't feel the cut, you just feel warm and wet. Then it takes even longer to register. That is when the panic sets in, when somebody gets it, knows that they just got sliced or stabbed.

That all depends on the type of knife, location of puncture or laceration and knowledge of said weapon...I've seen guys virtually levitate off another when someone yelled he's got a knife!! Funniest part it was dude on the bottom who didn't have a knife When its the intent to kill, dont ever let 'em know its comin' or that you have it...in a civilian SD situation I have seen the brandish work in many close range situations where talk (or attempting) of pulling your gun would be suicide

[Tant01]

You'll feel it. You'll want it out now too.

It is highly possible that somebody won't notice they've been cut for a minute.
If they're already sweating...and they don't see the weapon, it could take even longer. Initially you don't feel the cut, you just feel warm and wet. Then it takes even longer to register. That is when the panic sets in, when somebody gets it, knows that they just got sliced or stabbed.

You mean like when you're shaving... in the shower??? Or when you're washing dishes and grab a broken glass?

[J-Luck]

SG... If I may? You're a little out of your element here.

Being cut (or stabbed) has a ... Unique effect on a person. The spontaneous reaction to almost any serious wound is to first cover the wound with your hand(s). In the process of information by the "reptilian" part of your brain you will take a moment and then you'll want to visually confirm the seriousness of the wound, you'll move your hands to look at it. There won't be any "I'll finish breaking your arm" Macho BS. You'll be in survival mode trying to get AWAY from the thing that cut you.

But don't take MY word for anything, eh?

You're not taking into account shock, adrenaline, and toughness... any one of which by itself will not necessarily nullify the effects of what you're talking about, but combined they could. You are right, but there have been plenty of people documented as having fought back after being stabbed multiple times.

The same goes for a broken arm though, there have even been MMA fighters who kept fighting with broken limbs(forrest griffen knocked the guy out with a broken arm, and Tim Silvia tried to keep fighting, and kept telling the ref his arm wasn't broken when we all watched it snap).

Maybe it's not good to say this v this. Hopefully if you end up in that type of situation your tenacity, technique, and pure viciousness will help you gain the upper hand.

[J-Luck]

That all depends on the type of knife, location of puncture or laceration and knowledge of said weapon...I've seen guys virtually levitate off another when someone yelled he's got a knife!! Funniest part it was dude on the bottom who didn't have a knife When its the intent to kill, dont ever let 'em know its comin' or that you have it...in a civilian SD situation I have seen the brandish work in many close range situations where talk (or attempting) of pulling your gun would be suicide

True. I think it all depends on the person, I've seen what you said, and I've personally fought through being cut, and seen it before. It's all situational like you said.