This is all Clintons fault

[Kimpatsu]

Also to the list, I would add additional funding into fusion technology, I know it would be dangerous us the beginning, but could you imagine a Fission and fusion plant together? a constantly self renwing energy source.

Also, since we can make hydrogen powered cars, couldn't we do this on a larger scale and make a hydrogen energy plant?

Do you mean cold fusion, Matthew? Because, if so, please explain how any catalyst could influence an object several orders of magnitude smaller. And if you mean hot fusion, well, I guess we won't be around after your first trial to worry about pollution any more...

[Tom Yum]

I think that the idea of fusion plants is to make helium out of hydrogen, as the sun does. Most fission plants run on Uranium 235. Anyways I fully support nuclear research.

Quotes that never made it:

"Fusion is highly unstable but pow'rful good." - Huck Finn

"Nuclear fusion plant design is the 'thing'" - W.Shakespeare

"Positrons? we don't need no steenkeeng positrons!" - Paul Rodriguez

"You've got to be the beta particle" - Chevy Chase (Caddy Shack)

[MatthewAlphonso]

Do you mean cold fusion, Matthew? Because, if so, please explain how any catalyst could influence an object several orders of magnitude smaller. And if you mean hot fusion, well, I guess we won't be around after your first trial to worry about pollution any more...

Hehe, I never claimed I knew how to do it, and I never claimed to be a genius (though sometimes I hope...) I just mentioned increased funding into the research (perhaps some of the juicy funding aimed at faithbased (read x-tian I've yet to see any given to Islamic or Pagan groups) groups)

And would it be that bad to destroy all of humanity, hell the Earth would thank us. Anyway, if you're dead, you don't have to worry about pollution, you're dead.

[Kimpatsu]

Look dude, if someone calls you stupid or insuniuates that than you respond.

At what point have I ever engaged in ad hominem?

Chernobyl happened in Russia where they have crappy technology so what do you expect. Three Mile Island was overblown...some radioactive gas vented into the environment...big deal. Radioactive gasses are released when volcanoes erupt.

No, Chernobyl happened in Ukraine. That's a different country now, and was semi-independent within the Soviet era.
As to Three Mile Island, it was serious enough; the next accident will be bigger.

A few oil stations won't do much environmental damage. Perhaps there are some microbes in the oil field that will be destroyed by pumping up the oil, yet you and I kill microbes daily when we wash our hands or do our laundry.

You will kill more than just microbes drilling in Alaska. It's a wildlife preserve for a reason. We are already on the brink of a mass extinction event, and certainly don't need to contribute to said event further.

Keep in mind that the world runs on oil and it can't be changed overnight. Even if completely eliminate the need for oil as a power source there are still thousands of petrochemicals that we depend on.

Then we should start the change now.
The world needs to lose its addiction to oil.

It would be restricted to areas which are volcanically active.

But as we've already seen, the surplus can be sold to other countries that are not volcanically active.

It would take more than mass production to lower the price.

No, it wouldn't. (Excluding the outlay for infrastructure, of course, but governments should supply that.)

No, I don't think that's an issue in the United States. If corn does become commonplace than the government will tax it. Why stifle a field when you can tax it in the future?

Are you asking generally, or for the specific current administration? For, the answer to the latter is that Dubya and his cronies are in the pockets of big oil, and will give them breaks whilst stifling any potential competition.

The tide is a tremendous force so why not harvest it. In the Bay of Funday (Canada) the tide rises by 40 feat twice a day...Immagine the ammount of power which can be harvested from that.

Yes; New Zealand runs entirely on hydroelectric power.

Adding laws at the Federal level to restrict state laws might be challenged and thrown out in court under states rights, its easier to withhold millions in state aid until California submits.

What you just suggested is blackmailing a soverign state. For that, you go straight to jail and do not pass go, do not collect $200.
You need to rethink your strategy there.

I can't give you a specific case in which somebody came to the same conclusion I did as far as excessive environmental regulations, I can only connect the dots and come to a conclusion.

Do you really think you've discovered something nobody else knows? More likely, you've connected the dots incorrectly, and have come tot he wrong conclusion.

In windy areas; We don't want to have a wind farm that doesn't run 99% of the time.

Nothing runs to that level of efficiency; Approx. 80% would be fine.

[Kimpatsu]

I think that the idea of fusion plants is to make helium out of hydrogen, as the sun does. Most fission plants run on Uranium 235. Anyways I fully support nuclear research.

Nuclear fusion as the sun does it is achieved at temperatures of 15,000,000°C; you can't attain that kind of temperature here on Earth. And if you're thinking of cold fusion, that's a load of rubbish, and always has been. How do you affect something several orders of magnitude smaller?

[MatthewAlphonso]

Nuclear fusion as the sun does it is achieved at temperatures of 15,000,000°C; you can't attain that kind of temperature here on Earth. And if you're thinking of cold fusion, that's a load of rubbish, and always has been. How do you affect something several orders of magnitude smaller?

People also used to say that it was impossible for a human to travel faster than 50 MPH. Furthermore, there's the impossibility of flight.What we say is impossible now will most likely be very common in the future.

And, as for the comment, "Nuclear fusion as the sun does it is achieved at temperatures of 15,000,000°C; you can't attain that kind of temperature here on Earth" We have fusion technology, the hydrogen bomb, we just have no way of controlling it, yet. The fusion reaction is started via a small fission explosion. We just need to learn to harness the reaction (I know, good luck with that).

[Kimpatsu]

People also used to say that it was impossible for a human to travel faster than 50 MPH. Furthermore, there's the impossibility of flight.What we say is impossible now will most likely be very common in the future.

This is a false analogy that was comprehensively debunked by Richard Dawkins in "A Devil's Chaplain".

And, as for the comment, "Nuclear fusion as the sun does it is achieved at temperatures of 15,000,000°C; you can't attain that kind of temperature here on Earth" We have fusion technology, the hydrogen bomb, we just have no way of controlling it, yet. The fusion reaction is started via a small fission explosion. We just need to learn to harness the reaction (I know, good luck with that).

There you go; we create a miniature sun. The hydrogen bomb isn't safe. There's no way you can safely harness that reaction and (mroe to the point) sustain it. And cold fusion is a fiction, so there's no way that fusion is going to supply our energy needs, not now, not ever.

[Tom Yum]

The fusion reaction is started via a small fission explosion. We just need to learn to harness the reaction (I know, good luck with that).

Ahhh the subatomic world!

I'll trade you some of my defective mass for a little more energy

Teleportation will never happen, Mathew so don't even try...

[gregimotis]

Okay class, now raise your hand if you realized the the original post was facetious... Yes, yes that's pretty much what I thought.

All who do not have their hands raised, look up 'facetious' in the dictionary, then write an 50 word essay on the humor value of high grade trolling in todays internet society - focusing specifically on the concept of laughing at, rather than with, the respondents.



Masala, you may take a bow.

[Tom Yum]

[QUOTE=gregimotis]Okay class, now raise your hand if you realized the the original post was facetious... Yes, yes that's pretty much what I thought. QUOTE]

All who do not have their hands raised, look up 'facetious' in the dictionary, then write an 50 word essay on the humor value of high grade trolling in todays internet society - focusing specifically on the concept of laughing at, rather than with, the respondents.
Masala, you may take a bow.

Feces is a bad word. I'm tellin'

Hey, are you too good for low-grade trolling ?

[HtTKar]

People.
Check out "Peak Oil". Do a google search.
Many people warned this time was going to come long ago. The world is swiss cheese when it comes to looking for oil. We have looked everywhere that is profitable. Peak Oil begins when OPEC rules the energy for the world and it has begun. They reported the first symptom would be rolling blackouts.
Gasoline would become more expensive, making travel more expensive. All food prices will rise because of this. Most medicines rely on oil, all medicine prices will rise, and the list goes on.

The Bush's are Oil people, they have known about Peak Oil for some time now, hence why we are in Iraq...to give us some leverage. This is why we are opening coal plants again (we only have about 100yrs worth of coal left)To say this is Clintons fault, or any single persons fault is plain ignorance. It is the people of the US that cause our own problems. People are still buying bigger and bigger cars, drive solo to work, and do not invest in technologies that save oil. Supply and demand. Companies produce what customers want.

How many people actually even know where to buy a solar panel, or how to install one, let alone set up your own plant? How many people still know how to can or preserve food? How many people car-pool? We spend a lot of money on things that we dont need, and that feeds this deficit.

Oil is so cheap to extract and produces so much energy, that it is irreplaceable. People think about solar panels, or fuel cells; both take a lot of power to make. Nobody has really evaluated how much energy it takes to make a solar panel. It would take about 20yrs to get the energy back out of a solar panel that was put into making one. Nuclear plants take so much energy to build and tear down, that in the end they do not produce a surplus, it is just an investment that pays out over time. Nothing is as cheap or portable as oil.

But heres a thought. Oil in USA would be much more expensive if the government didn't subsidize it. The governement spends about $260 billion dollars on gasoline subsidies. Take those away and invest in wind power. Within 3yrs the US could run off of wind power completely, with towers in only 3 states. Wind power is not portable, so mass transportation on Trams or subways would have to be set up. Oil would have to be saved for aircraft, and war. Of course oil would then be so expensive that people would be forced to invest in car-pooling, smaller cars, cheaper medicines, local foods, etc.

Which brings up another point. All the jobs in the US are moving either overseas or to larger cities. Most people can no longer just walk to work, and working people are needed to keep this country going. If mass transportation is not set up soon; once oil gets too expensive the country will fall apart.
I know that I used to personally spend over $350 a month driving to and from work (1hr each way). I had to switch to 13hr days to make coming to work worth it. I make pretty good money, but with gas prices so expensive, it was like I was working for minimum wage.

I build mini power plants for fun for a place that I camp at. Pelton wheels, solar plants, ram pumps, these are cheap to build. I have been researching Peak Oil for some time now, and have tried explaining this to people but I always get the same response. "We'll figure something out when the time comes". People just cant imagine a world without Oil, and the USA is an OIL culture. Everything we do is based around oil.

[Tom Yum]

I build mini power plants for fun for a place that I camp at. Pelton wheels, solar plants, ram pumps, these are cheap to build.

Awesome.

Are your solar cells made of TiO2, GaAs or another metalloid comp?

[HtTKar]

Sorry, I buy solar panels. I have built solar cells, but they're not very efficient. Just N type silicon, P type silicon, glass, antireflective coating, and backing. N-type is just silicon doped in phosphorus, P-type is silicon doped in Boron.

If I built a panel, it would be gigantic to produce even a little electricity. Even commercially produced PV cells lose 70% of energy potential due to the "band-gap energy" of the material. Better for solar power, than electricity. But I put together solar plants with panels, inverter, and charge controllers and use these for modest electical plug-in needs. I've been thinking about having my house done, but I live in NY. It would take 20yrs to recoup the investment. I'm hoping panel prices will drop, but I doubt it. They have a new type out right now that goes on your house like rubber-roofing, and can be installed in a day.

For a good summer time hobby, check out ram pumps. You can build one really really cheap, and if you have a camp they will last forever. You'd be amazed at how these things can just keep going, without using electricity. You could even have one feed a pelton wheel controlled flow for AC if you wanted.

TiO2 (titanium dioxide) is just used as a pigment on the PV cells that acts as a photosensitizer. Also under UV, it has self-cleansing and disinfecting properties, which is another reason its used in PV cells. It's going to be used a lot in medical devices. I heard on the radio that underdeveloped nations are going to start using UV for water purification, and all sorts of disinfecting. I'm sure TiO2 will play a large part in that.

GAas is mostly used in LEDs and band pass filters, it could replace silicon, but I dont know if it could do any better.

[Tom Yum]

Sorry, I buy solar panels. I have built solar cells, but they're not very efficient. Just N type silicon, P type silicon, glass, antireflective coating, and backing. N-type is just silicon doped in phosphorus, P-type is silicon doped in Boron.

I've been thinking about having my house done, but I live in NY. It would take 20yrs to recoup the investment. .

Do NY utilities comp you for back generating the electricity? Wasn't sure if you factored that into the investment? If its part of the house I'd imagine that the value of those investments changes too.

[HtTKar]

Do NY utilities comp you for back generating the electricity? Wasn't sure if you factored that into the investment? If its part of the house I'd imagine that the value of those investments changes too.

yeah, well it depends. If you hook up to the grid you have to run your electricity through the meter. Your meter will literally go backwards, and any utility company will have to compensate you for the electricity you created. On the other hand, the electricity that you create has to be much more pure than what you recieve from the utility companies.

Also, many states including NYS will offer compensation for installation or "Green Energy" compensation.

There are two places where solar power is not really a good option, yet. most of NY, and Washington state.


Wind power is where its at right now.

In 1991, the US Department of Energy published a national Wind Resource Inventory which pointed out that three states- Kansas, N. Dekota, and Texas- have enough wind energy to satisfy national electrical needs.

Many farmers in this country are suffering from low income, and are being forced to close down their farms. They can install windmills, and still have cattle browsing right below them or grow corn. The average WindMill gets about $3,000 a year in rent if set up by a local utility and takes up 1/4 acre of land which can also be farmed or ranched; so thats a pretty good income booster, especially if you have a lot of land and are willing to give it a try. Also at about 4 cents per Kilowatt-hour, a single modern turbine can produce $100,000 worth of electricity in a year. I'm kind of excited about the idea.