The Karbala Raid

[BoarSpear]

heres a video of the usa chinook being shot down. im not a weapons expert, but that looks like a missile that hit the chopper. usa officials are trying to downplay the threat from the newly acquired shoulder fired anti aircraft weapons that sunnis have bought with donations given to them by our good ally, the saudis. this may just mean new phase in the insurgency is upon us. remember what happened to the russians after stinger missiles were given to afghan mujahideen?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1ec7d3ccc6

When you stay in a protracted conflict on foreign soil your enemies will ALL contribute to your demise in any fashion they can. That becomes troublesome when your enemies are more numerous than your allies.

Thinking an enemy state wont dare interfere through a common border of a country you have invaded is moronic at best...we made this mistake before in Korea. WE would interfere in any conflict that included our enemies overrunning our neighbors, whether the neighbor wanted us to our not...but we expect less of our enemies? Stupidity and arrogance at its best.

[Tom Yum]

When you stay in a protracted conflict on foreign soil your enemies will ALL contribute to your demise in any fashion they can. That becomes troublesome when your enemies are more numerous than your allies..

As Sun Zi says:

to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.

Are we able to win more friends in the Middle East and North Africa than we currently have and take one more fighter out of the war? It seems most countries are neutral if not down right alarmed and ready to fight.

The most recent example I can think of is Muammar al-Gaddafi of Libya, whom repented of his sins by paying out over $2 bln to the victims of the Pan Am 103 flight over Scotland. Gaddafi even went further to denounce Al-Qaeda, while opening his country to weapons inspectors. We owe this allegiance to the negotiation skills of Nelson Mandela and the U.N...therein lies a potential ally and a second center of gravity.

How are we treating our allies? What have we done to win new allies? Do we have "international-friendly" leaders dealing with our Allies? Lastly, how are our Allies asisting in the GWOT?

Thinking an enemy state wont dare interfere through a common border of a country you have invaded is moronic at best...we made this mistake before in Korea. WE would interfere in any conflict that included our enemies overrunning our neighbors, whether the neighbor wanted us to our not...but we expect less of our enemies? Stupidity and arrogance at its best.

We left Germany, Japan and Italy alone for a while and it turned out really bad not only for us, but our allies. We are more likely to intervene because the world is becoming a smaller place and we think that intervention would prevent another major world war. Its engrained in our psyche.

Add this to the fact, that fewer and fewer of our nations leaders come from experienced military backgrounds, while more and more come from strictly commercial and/or legal backgrounds. In my very humble armchair QB opinion, we should send more experienced military men into our nations leadership and let them call more of the shots in matters of war.

[BoarSpear]

The most recent example I can think of is Muammar al-Gaddafi of Libya, whom repented of his sins by paying out over $2 bln to the victims of the Pan Am 103 flight over Scotland. Gaddafi even went further to denounce Al-Qaeda, while opening his country to weapons inspectors. We owe this allegiance to the negotiation skills of Nelson Mandela and the U.N...therein lies a potential ally and a second center of gravity.

BWAHAHAHA yeah, he turned over a new leaf.

With the Soviets (his major backer) out of the picture Gaddafi shifted his interest and attention to Africa and South America...not because he is suddenly our friend, but because he isn't stupid....While he now gets MONEY and intel from the US he sends that to our enemies who are quietly working in the theaters Bush likes to ignore...

[Tom Yum]

BWAHAHAHA yeah, he turned over a new leaf.

With the Soviets (his major backer) out of the picture Gaddafi shifted his interest and attention to Africa and South America...not because he is suddenly our friend, but because he isn't stupid.While he now gets MONEY and intel from the US he sends that to our enemies who are quietly working in the theaters Bush likes to ignore...

No, I wasn't suggesting that he turned over a new leaf rather that he was being more 'cooperative.'

So how do we win the hearts and minds of more allies?

[DickHardman]

So how do we win the hearts and minds of more allies?

leveling an entire country probably wasnt the best way to go about it.......

[BoarSpear]

So how do we win the hearts and minds of more allies?

You earn allies the same way you earn enemies, through your actions. We didn't gain all these enemies or alienate our allies overnight, it took time.

Unfortunately even after years of good gestures the people will remember the lies and the air raids and home invasions dragging them out of their beds etc...not to mention all the family members we killed or maimed, don't expect any real friends there in our lifetime thanks to the bungled BS war our lying leader started.

Really, how could they make it right for YOU if you lived in Iraq?

What could the same man who lied and bombed your home into rubble and killed your children say to make friends with you?

[DickHardman]

do you ever think the chaos in iraq could just be our governments divide and conquer strategy? im not saying this is the case. but if you think about it, if we were to pull out now, we would leave the middle east with iranian backed shiites fighting saudi backed sunnis. our enemies would be tied up fighting eachother.