Christians vs Atheist?

[jubaji]

WHAT? ARE YOU RETARDED?! What about the Inquisition, the Crusades, and just about every other fucked up thing done by Christianity...covering up molestations and rapes...?

Ah, but whereas all of those are things directly in violation of the faith involved (completely the opposite of what the faith demands), those instances where people have died because they were not atheist involved no violation of atheism at all. Human beings will always fail. Do you therefore advocate following a call to live a better way than most do, or to have no moral compass whatsoever?

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

i understand that, but i also want to point out that many people may claim to believe in god but really do not. so if someone who claims to believe god or a particular religion goes and kills some people, how is that gods fault or the fault of the religion that most likely forbids these kinds of acts? isnt it because of the people not listening to their religions? yeah people were massacred during the inquisition. however, i highly doubt that jesus christ ever said that was ok. same for these muslim extremists, muhammad explicitly states that crimes involving the spilled blood of others will be the very first crimes god is going to deal with on the day of judgment, yet these extremists have no problem blowing people away, leaving rivers of blood running through baghdad. are they true muslims??? no sir.

well, i will at least agree that it is ultimately individuals who are to blame, not religion.

[DickHardman]

my point was only that you can believe in god and still do things that are in direct conflict with your beliefs

i understand that, but i also want to point out that many people may claim to believe in god but really do not. so if someone who claims to believe god or a particular religion goes and kills some people, how is that gods fault or the fault of the religion that most likely forbids these kinds of acts? isnt it because of the people not listening to their religions? yeah people were massacred during the inquisition. however, i highly doubt that jesus christ ever said that was ok. same for these muslim extremists, muhammad explicitly states that crimes involving the spilled blood of others will be the very first crimes god is going to deal with on the day of judgment, yet these extremists have no problem blowing people away, leaving rivers of blood running through baghdad. are they true muslims??? no sir.

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

plenty. but i also know of many christians who strive to help others, volunteer at homeless shelters, and genuinely strive to do good things.

absolutely, there are alot of the latter types in my own family. i'm sorry, i didn't mean to pick on christians, seems that happens often enough without me, it was just an easy example. but examples can be found in every belief system. my point was only that you can believe in god and still do things that are in direct conflict with your beliefs

[DickHardman]

how many christian gluttons and adulterers do you know/know of?

plenty. but i also know of many christians who strive to help others, volunteer at homeless shelters, and genuinely strive to do good things.

[DickHardman]

So what about our leaders, aren't they Christian? Lies and war under false pretense that cause millions of deaths...isn't Bush afraid of hell?

they say they are christian, they say they believe in god, but their actions speak otherwise. leads me to believe that they too are far away from god.

the extremist muslims out there also claim to believe in god and claim all the violence they carry out is because they believe in god, yet the entire doctrine they claim to belive in states that everything they are doing is forbidden. so are they truly muslims and true believers of god or far from it?

just because people claim to be something, it doesnt mean they are.

[BoarSpear]

those people dont believe in god. they may claim they do, but anyone who murders, rapes, and molests others is quite far away from god. i dont care what they claim to believe in, they are FAR from being true believers in god. had these fools had any real faith they would have feared the punishment of bringing harm to other people.

So what about our leaders, aren't they Christian? Lies and war under false pretense that cause millions of deaths...isn't Bush afraid of hell?

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

those people dont believe in god. they may claim they do, but anyone who murders, rapes, and molests others is quite far away from god. i dont care what they claim to believe in, they are FAR from being true believers in god. had these fools had any real faith they would have feared the punishment of bringing harm to other people.

i think you're just giving humans too much credit my friend. of course belief in a single creator should inspire shame at the actions of some of these believers. but actions and beliefs don't always line up. how many christian gluttons and adulterers do you know/know of?

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

Uh...no. Not a religion.
Any other philosophy too? So hard determinism is a religion? existentialism too? I believe in cognitive dissonance...does that mean I'm a member of a whole host of religions? NOPE. WRONG.

HOW is it wrong. is it the lack of ceremony and ritual that makes hard determinism not a religion? this is what seems to be put forth by dictionary definitions, that only the formalization distinguishes a "religion" from a plain ole "belief system". do you buy into this? how do you define religion, and how does your definition of philosophy differ? like i said, i'm genuinely curious and i'm not pushing for one answer or another, but whenever i ask this question i get the kind of response you just gave me, plugging the ears and singing "LALALA NOOOOOOO LALALA NOT LISTENING!"

cognitive dissonance is no more valid an argument than to say christianity is not a religion because it contains many influences from other religions and philosophies.

[DickHardman]

What religion are you? Just curious so I have a framework...some broad strokes I can work the details in to make my point and relate it to your background.

i dont have a particular religion. i believe in god, but no particular religion.

[Garland]

those people dont believe in god. they may claim they do, but anyone who murders, rapes, and molests others is quite far away from god. i dont care what they claim to believe in, they are FAR from being true believers in god. had these fools had any real faith they would have feared the punishment of bringing harm to other people.

What religion are you? Just curious so I have a framework...some broad strokes I can work the details in to make my point and relate it to your background.

[DickHardman]

WHAT? ARE YOU RETARDED?! What about the Inquisition, the Crusades, and just about every other fucked up thing done by Christianity...covering up molestations and rapes...? What about the fucked up shit the Muslims do?

those people dont believe in god. they may claim they do, but anyone who murders, rapes, and molests others is quite far away from god. i dont care what they claim to believe in, they are FAR from being true believers in god. had these fools had any real faith they would have feared the punishment of bringing harm to other people.

[Garland]

i'm curious (genuinely, i don't have a good answer myself) how you define atheism or agnosticism or any other philosophy from "religion"? you derive codes of conduct and morality from atheist beliefs just as from a belief in the supernatural, or at least i hope you do. it seems to me the main difference is how many believers there are and how institutionalized they are. but in practice, a lot of the time one christian's beliefs vary as widely from another's as one atheist's beliefs vary from another's.

Uh...no. Not a religion.
Any other philosophy too? So hard determinism is a religion? existentialism too? I believe in cognitive dissonance...does that mean I'm a member of a whole host of religions? NOPE. WRONG.

[Garland]

You're trying to separate the political and religious components, but that works the other way as well. Religious massacres have all had their political components as well. (see post #99)

Yeah, I am...
Every true Marx-esque Communist must be an atheist
Not every atheist is a communist.

That's like saying that Playa de Giron went down because JFK was a Catholic. It's illogical and simply untrue.

[Garland]

one of the main reasons behind all this violence and bloodshed is lack of faith in god inmop. if people truly believed in god and feared him they would not be so quick to harm others and cause chaos.

WHAT? ARE YOU RETARDED?! What about the Inquisition, the Crusades, and just about every other fucked up thing done by Christianity...covering up molestations and rapes...? What about the fucked up shit the Muslims do?