Narrow Minds

[Hardball]

On Topic-Sort of

baltimoresun.com
State hospital patient attacks 3 workers with butter knife, police say
The Associated Press

2:41 PM EDT, October 21, 2009

A state hospital patient who police say used a butter knife to attack three staff members Tuesday night in Sykesville faces attempted murder, weapon and assault charges.

Maryland State Police went to Springfield Hospital Center, a regional psychiatric hospital operated by the Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, about 10 p.m. for reports of a patient cutting nursing staff. When police arrived, hospital staff and security had restrained the 52-year-old man.

Authorities said the incident started when the patient tried to stab a staff member. The employee suffered a minor cut on the chest and fought off the man. A second employee was cut on the neck, and another worker suffered injuries to the face, hands and chest before the man was subdued, according to police.

State regulations don't allow police to identify the man because a court ordered him to be committed. He was being held without bail.

Copyright 2009 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

[Da Pope]

Taking pride or touting that you can take on "fruitcakes"...disgusts me.

And where did I say that?

Usually clinics and hospitals have certain rules and programs which tell you in what ways and when you can restrain a client...medical restraint only under the order of a nurse or an MD.

MMmm so when I guy decides to attack another patient, your telling me that I should wait around for a nurse or an MD to come over and authorise restraint....is that seriously what your saying?

You can never strike a client. EVER. You can never use a pain compliance technique on a client. EVER. You can never joint lock a client. EVER. You can never choke a client or sit on them to where their breathing can become restricted or obscured...EVER. Basically, the most these programs allow you to do is a side hug...which works well if you have support staff against a smaller and relatively placid individual...but against a flailing full size man on your own...not so good. Essentially, you aren't allowed to touch clients, and those who are THAT violent or noncompliant are going to be found in prison wards in PRISON or on a lockdown unit already with restraints (medical/pharmaceutical and physical) at the ready and with enough support staff to handle them in a way that will prevent the likliehood of injury to the client and staff...and usually those types of state hospital has a disgusting level of subpar care and treatment of clientele.

In your dreams. The majority of psych care is under funded and oversubscribed and when it comes to acute admissions there is not always room in secure places. Also some admissions are just plain unpredictable or completely unknown to the service...so what then eh?

I dont know what the score is in the US but over here we have a 3 second reaction time rule. If attacked you are allowed to react. If your response is deemed unnessecary then action will be taken against you.

If somebody flys off the handle, somebody did something wrong. When confronted with a client who is tossing stuff or having a temper tantrum, sometimes the best thing you can do is call for support staff, sit down and let them ride it out before trying to talk to them.

Your lack of experience come to the fore again. You dont always have that option. Some menatlly ill people aint so rational y'know?

I'm just sick of seeing people abuse and neglect clients (negligent or insufficient care IS abuse).

Totally agree

Jubs...honestly, if you had an acute psychotic break...who would you rather take care of you; empathetic and honestly caring...more knowledgible and a little less experienced...or a seasoned security person who lacks the RIGHT educational background and looks down on you? Your choice.

You are making alsorts of assumptions on how I did my job. I would prefer somebody working for me that wasnt going to get themselves and other people harmed.

I dont look down on the people I worked with thats an assumption you ccame to because I said 'fruit cake' and you jumped into hissy fit mode.

And if you just see the people who work day in and day out protecting the patient, other patients and staff from either confrontaion or attack as uneducated thugs, you are in for a massive suprise.

[Garland]

xOxo*mwah*oxOx

[jubaji]

Aw, the young'uns are so cute...

[Garland]

Doesn't mean your basic values will change, but...

I certainly hope so. If they do, that means I should probably seek a different vocation. And if the time comes...it would be the responsible thing to do.

[jubaji]

I have only been working in clinical settings for the last 2-3 years....

I'm guessing you'll be a little less enraged in another decade or so. Doesn't mean your basic values will change, but...

[jubaji]

I do.

I thought so.

[Garland]

And you have one, right?

I do. I have a Bachelors in Clinical Psychology and I am currently enrolled and dedicated to obtaining a BRN (Nursing)...evenutally I hope to obtain an APRN and become a psych nurse...

I have only been working in clinical settings for the last 2-3 years...not 15 (I'm not looking to get stuck with a security or CNA or Psych Tech job for the rest of my life...I don't like cleaning shit that much). Regardless...I don't talk shit on my clients, certainly not out in the open. If I have an issue with somebody, my coworkers or supervisors are people I can vent to.

Regrettably, it sounds like our friend her didn't have ENOUGH supervision. Certainly hope his reason for quitting was finding better employment and not some sort of boundary or ethics violation.
Taking pride or touting that you can take on "fruitcakes"...disgusts me.

Usually clinics and hospitals have certain rules and programs which tell you in what ways and when you can restrain a client...medical restraint only under the order of a nurse or an MD. You can never strike a client. EVER. You can never use a pain compliance technique on a client. EVER. You can never joint lock a client. EVER. You can never choke a client or sit on them to where their breathing can become restricted or obscured...EVER. Basically, the most these programs allow you to do is a side hug...which works well if you have support staff against a smaller and relatively placid individual...but against a flailing full size man on your own...not so good. Essentially, you aren't allowed to touch clients, and those who are THAT violent or noncompliant are going to be found in prison wards in PRISON or on a lockdown unit already with restraints (medical/pharmaceutical and physical) at the ready and with enough support staff to handle them in a way that will prevent the likliehood of injury to the client and staff...and usually those types of state hospital has a disgusting level of subpar care and treatment of clientele.

If somebody flys off the handle, somebody did something wrong. When confronted with a client who is tossing stuff or having a temper tantrum, sometimes the best thing you can do is call for support staff, sit down and let them ride it out before trying to talk to them.

I'm just sick of seeing people abuse and neglect clients (negligent or insufficient care IS abuse). I mean, look at how many sex offenders end up being able to work with the elderly. Have you ever had to talk to somebody who has had a family member raped or neglected in a "care" facility? It happens more frequently than you could imagine. Same with people being abused or beaten or mistreated or neglected in hospital settings, psychiatric and otherwise.

Jubs...honestly, if you had an acute psychotic break...who would you rather take care of you; empathetic and honestly caring...more knowledgible and a little less experienced...or a seasoned security person who lacks the RIGHT educational background and looks down on you? Your choice.

[jubaji]

Having a degree in the field, so you ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT THE **** is going on with people helps create this.

And you have one, right?

[jubaji]

3 little words for working in healthcare.

And how long have you?

[jubaji]

No.

Mebbe a lil' bit?

[Garland]

So...is this really about you and your ego? Mebbe a lil' bit?

No. It is harmful to clients' wellbeing, it adds a burden to people who are already suffering not only from their illness but the toll it takes on their family, job, standing in the community, and their pocket book (do you have any idea how much it costs for inpatient treatment...imagine without insurance, phenomenal ****-over due to our pay-to-live healthcare system), it increases recidivism, it is harmful to how society views the issue of mental health and healthcare in general, and it hurts the profession itself...making people more reluctant to seek treatment or even comply with treatment because somebody is looking down on them.

People come first. If you can't summon enough empathy and compassion to care for the people you work with, you should NOT work in that environment. Having a degree in the field, so you ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT THE **** is going on with people helps create this.

3 little words for working in healthcare; unconditional positive regard.
Anything less and you need to find other work, quick.

I'm sorry...I'm trying to be more calm about this and take a step back...but people like this just feel me with venom and contempt.

[jubaji]

That explains it, they hired you with absolutely no background in the field. It's their fault for putting an ignorant prick in a position where they have to care for an at risk population.

I do have an issue, a big one...with you and your ilk that stigmatize and anchor down my choice of profession. It's because of people like you that people still make pariahs out of the mentally ill.

It's simple, people that don't have the prerequisite training should NOT be allowed to work with mentally ill, mentally challenged, elderly, or kids without extreme supervision and some screening to test for bias that may come through as some sort of countertransference issue.

So...is this really about you and your ego? Mebbe a lil' bit?

[Garland]

You also dont seem to be able to read. I got me degree from a University (look the word up on Google) not from my job on psych wards. My job paid for my time at University (there's that word again).

I called somebody a fruit cake I must be an evil abuser of the mentally ill

That explains it, they hired you with absolutely no background in the field. It's their fault for putting an ignorant prick in a position where they have to care for an at risk population.

I do have an issue, a big one...with you and your ilk that stigmatize and anchor down my choice of profession. It's because of people like you that people still make pariahs out of the mentally ill.

It's simple, people that don't have the prerequisite training should NOT be allowed to work with mentally ill, mentally challenged, elderly, or kids without extreme supervision and some screening to test for bias that may come through as some sort of countertransference issue.

[Da Pope]

I just fucking loathe people in the supposed helping professions who talk poorly about their wards. Anyone working in the mental health field who uses the word "fruit cake" to describe a client is hurting not only harmful to that person's wellbeing and everyone else on the unit, but is also hurting the entire healthcare profession.

To come here and boast about your low level psych tech job you got with a degree in fucking biomechanics (what the **** does that have to do with one on one interaction with people with psychological issues?) and worked with "dangerous fruitcakes"...seems out of place. Did you...what...rough them up? Have to hurt them? Feel threatened? Did you bully your wards?

It would be like hiring a klansman to teach inner city youth. You disgust me.

Let me guess....you have 'issues'?

You also dont seem to be able to read. I got me degree from a University (look the word up on Google) not from my job on psych wards. My job paid for my time at University (there's that word again).

I didnt 'rough' them up cockhead thats your own bizzare interpretation of what I said. I spent my time stopping them from attacking other people or harming themsleves. And on a number of occasions ahve been attcked by highly psychotic people and intervened during assults. So when I say I have practical experiences of altercations I mean it.

You need to get a grip Garland flying off like that without even taking the time to actually understand what you read.


I called somebody a fruit cake I must be an evil abuser of the mentally ill

Get a fucking grip dickhead!