Most useless Martial Arts styles

[Toudiyama[NL]]

stances are snapshots, if you make a leading leg kick, you use a nEko ashi dachi, as there are situations were on might use a short zenkutsu dachi (shorin zenkutsu dachi) and even shiko dachi, there are stances though.... sanchin isn't one I would call practical ( yeah lets take a lowkick in this stance)

origionally the main stance was so short the toes of the back foot touch the same line as the heel of the back but not with the toes pointed inwards ( like in sanchin dachi)
This was what has become zen kuntsu dachi ( front leg bend stance)

I sometimes used the stances to teach pupils to use the hips, by putting them in a back stance and changing that during the punch into a zen kutsu dachi and during the retraction back into the back stance

stances aren't something where you titpick about an inch schools that do have lost focus

[huey]

first off to sherwinc happy birthday, secondly i don't know why you quoted me because i couldn't see anything in your post that required it but oh well.
knife hands are useless huh? i guess a kick to the balls would be useless too?
you knw what everyone lets just stop wasting time and tell muay thai fighter that he's the shit and everyone else sucks shit through a dirty straw. mmmm doesn't taste as bad as i thought it would.

happy now?

[MuayThaiFighter]

first off to sherwinc happy birthday, secondly i don't know why you quoted me because i couldn't see anything in your post that required it but oh well.
knife hands are useless huh? i guess a kick to the balls would be useless too?
you knw what everyone lets just stop wasting time and tell muay thai fighter that he's the shit and everyone else sucks shit through a dirty straw. mmmm doesn't taste as bad as i thought it would.

happy now?

Just talking through common sense unfortunatley most Asian traditional martial arts styles wouldn't know anything about reality and common sense.

Kicking to nuts would work and everyone knows that because it often happens in real fights and has always worked but you don't have to be in martial arts to know how to do that.

Open hand strikes are in most cases not going to work because if your opponent catches your fingers while applying one he can break your fingers as I would if someone tried using a finger strike.Besides you can break your own fingers trying to strike someone like that in a real fight but you wouldn't know that because you probably only practice it in katas and drills but have never actually sparred using knife hand or other open hand techniques.

More power and less damage to your hand will happen when hitting with fist.

To strike open hand is like trying to catch a football with the tips of your fingers,chances are you would get hurt doing so.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

Open hand strikes are in most cases not going to work because if your opponent catches your fingers while applying one he can break your fingers as I would if someone tried using a finger strike.Besides you can break your own fingers trying to strike someone like that in a real fight but you wouldn't know that because you probably only practice it in katas and drills but have never actually sparred using knife hand or other open hand techniques.

More power and less damage to your hand will happen when hitting with fist.

To strike open hand is like trying to catch a football with the tips of your fingers,chances are you would get hurt doing so.

If someone could catch my fingers, he can also catch my wrist or arm, maybe it can't break the fingers but it could lead to an armbar or something ( yes was part of our Karate curriculum)

Hitting bare fisted to hard targets can damage you just as well Bruce Lee also found that out when he was hitting a challenger several times to the back of the head

I believe in Pancrase one is only allowed to do open hand strikes like palmheels , didn't keep a guy like Bas Rutten to strike very hard

[CKD]

So sherwinc if you did not understand muay thai fighters post with the japanese terms he meant stuff like mabu and gongbu do not work. and I have learned more than a few forms of kung fu my teacher knew several and I was exposed to many others in China while I was peforming. and here is a nice article for you. www.streetbrawl.co.za/content/index2.html click reevolution and nhb for the street.

[choylifutrocks]

I have read a website of Rafael Matute that claims he is unbeatable because of his efficiency in Pachi Tanglang Kung Fu just as you stated however I don't believe it because anyone can claim anything.All instructors want students coming to their school. I don't believe everything I read on net. It claims there is no one equal to him yet I bet he hasn't fought Thai fighers in Thailand only the ones in America or where ever he is from.
...
Call me any names you want I don't care. I smell jealousy in the air coming from you. too

Ok, you really are a moron. What did Rafael Matute claim that he didn't prove?

Also, I said that almost all of the Kung Fu styles are not useful for self-defense. You've got to stop bottling up all of Kung Fu in one bottle, they are all different. What you are doing is like saying Martial arts suck! Karate is a martial art, and TKD is a martial art, they are not doing well in UFC, so all Martial Arts suck! That doesn make any sense. However, there are good ones.

Heres a lesson in logic.

if A=B
C=B
A=C

MT is a Martial Art
There is training in Martial Arts
MT has training

see how that works?

Now you are doing this:

A=B
A=C
D=B
D=C

Wing Chun in a Kung Fu Style
Wing Chun is ineffective
San Shou is a Kung Fu Style
San Shou is ineffective

See how that doesnt work?
Kung Fu is part of a greater class than Wing Chun, so wing chun does not accurately represent San Shou.

If you knew anything or researched anything about Rafael Matute, you would have seen his championship belts and that he's fought in Thailand. You also would have read this, (he didn't claim it; he proved it):

Reporter: I'd like to ask Martin some questions. Which tournaments did you fight while you were in Thailand?

Martin: I fought in the 3 great stadiums, including Lumpinee & Rachdamnern. My opponents were not only Thais, there were many Europeans & Americans as well. There were a few Dutch fighters who left a very deep impression in me till today.

AND THIS

1992 North America Muaythai Cup in Boston - Champion

1993 North America Muaythai Cup in Miami - Champion

1994-1998 World Muaythai Tournament in Bangkok - 5x Champion in 3 weight categories

1999 - Retired

You can read that material here: http://crane.50megs.com/index6t.htm
And see pictures (proof) of his belts / plaques here: http://www.pachitanglang.com/mastersu/matute.htm

I also want to say, that I don't think "traditional kung fu" is that great of a system either. Something about doing 2 years worth of stances and crap is lame. However, there are good styles of Kung Fu, and there are teachers who can teach it right that do not use traditional methods. General guidelines to avoid crap would be to avoid the mystical BS, and if you havn't learned how to fight better in 2 months, you're at the wrong school. You should be sparring by yellow sash, and they should offer "full-contact".

Does anyone else want to showthe rest of us that MuayThaiFighter is a Moron? It's fun!

[CKD]

Rafuel Matute said he learned muay thai and that he probaly could not win without it in a kung fu magazine.
quote by Choy Li Futrocks "Does anyone else want to showthe rest of us that MuayThaiFighter is a Moron?"
Why do you think MuayThaiFighters a moron? He makes good sense in my opinion. Only moron here is Sherwinc? He desperately tries to make comebacks by sounding like a guru because other people made good points and he does not know how to respound to them.

[choylifutrocks]

Rafuel Matute said he learned muay thai and that he probaly could not win without it in a kung fu magazine.
quote by Choy Li Futrocks "Does anyone else want to showthe rest of us that MuayThaiFighter is a Moron?"
Why do you think MuayThaiFighters a moron? He makes good sense in my opinion. Only moron here is Sherwinc? He desperately tries to make comebacks by sounding like a guru because other people made good points and he does not know how to respound to them.

You are absolutely right about Matute not being able to win Muay Thai without training in it. Muay Thai is a great MA. However, I believe the biggest factor in not being able to win is that he had to fight under Thai rules. Yes, he also had to learn the unmatched intensity, and toughness of the Thai fighters, but my point was to say that what separates him, in his opinion, is his training in Pachi Tanglang. I would recommend to anyone to take MT if it's on their block. I don't think it's THE BEST thing on earth. San Shou has been pretty damn good as a ring sport lately, taking the last 2 yrs of Thailand v. China, so that in itself says there are others. Also BJJ is great, and completely opposite of MT. That was my rebuttal to MTF for saying Kung Fu is worthless. Alot of it is worthless for self defense, or offense , but not all of it.

The reason I call MTF a moron, is the same reason other people such as Thai Bri call him a moron. Through having to read such stupid posts as "Who's better Muay Thai Fighter or Thai Bri" and "What is the most useless martial art" along with the reasoning behind the posts that he makes. He makes no sense, has no ability to listen and learn from others and has not said ONE single constructive thing (that I have found or read) in all of his posts on this forum.

I agree with you about sherwinc. I don't see the point in backing crazy mysticism, either. But, I've only had to read a few of his posts so for, so I can't speak "much" about him. He also doesn't criticize as much as MTF does.

MTF's one mission in life is for everybody on earth to worship the art of Muay Thai, and to revere him for being an MT practitioner. It's ridiculous.

[huey]

Open hand strikes are in most cases not going to work because if your opponent catches your fingers while applying one he can break your fingers as I would if someone tried using a finger strike.Besides you can break your own fingers trying to strike someone like that in a real fight but you wouldn't know that because you probably only practice it in katas and drills but have never actually sparred using knife hand or other open hand techniques.

you know that much about me just from reading what i wrote huh? you are the worlds foremost resource on what works and doesn't AND a psychic!!! where do you find the time? i want to be just like you when i lose my mind. first off, in most cases open handed weapons don't work? how do you know that? because your instructor said so? oh, and a finger strike is different than using the blade of your hand. you can break your fingers on a strike like that unless you train for that. now i don't expect that you will in your four by four box you like to think of as the real world, filled with a ring and punches and kicks and knees and elbows, all of which we train with as well.
i have already said that muay thai is good but it is not the only thing out there. this is due not entirely to your own mindset but the instruction you are lacking. the only way to get good at open handed strikes is to do them on people this is how i train and how i teach.

More power and less damage to your hand will happen when hitting with fist.

you are extremely limited in your exposure of martial arts in general for that, even though i have never had the pleasure of meeting you, i am sorry.

[CKD]

To me personaly sanshou is probaly the most (maybe not only there must be one kung fu style I am missing thats effective) effective style.

[sherwinc]

You're an extremely WRONG!!!!!

Open hand strikes are in most cases not going to work because if your opponent catches your fingers while applying one he can break your fingers as I would if someone tried using a finger strike.Besides you can break your own fingers trying to strike someone like that in a real fight but you wouldn't know that because you probably only practice it in katas and drills but have never actually sparred using knife hand or other open hand techniques.

More power and less damage to your hand will happen when hitting with fist.

To strike open hand is like trying to catch a football with the tips of your fingers,chances are you would get hurt doing so.

You're very wrong, open hand strike is evenly more faster compare to fist. And the most powerful of all is always Palm and Fingers. Why????

The two most powerful achievements of kungfu is:
1. Iron Palm -------- Shaolin's KungFu ---------- Palm
2. Death Touch ----------- Taoist KungFu --------- Palm or Fingers

You could never catch my palms and finger strikes of kungfu cause kungfu strikes are non-telegraphic, what i mean is at a simple circular twist we draw power from it like a 1-and-a-3inch-punch, and most kungfu hand attacks their power comes from their waist.

that is the reason why kungfu hand attacks is most powerful than muaythai hand attacks.

Do you know the theory of all the MAGICIANS?
they often said " HANDS ARE FASTER THAN EYES "

Open Palms are faster than Fists. Hands are faster than eyes. Yet Muay Thai's eyes is faster than Muay Thai's Kicking Legs.

Note:
All of the Muay Thai's hand and leg attacks are all TELEGRAPHIC.

Why??????

Ans:
The shortest distance between point A and point B is a straight line.

[jubaji]

Argh! Isn't children's hour dragging on a bit long?

[CKD]

Hey I got a question for you Sherwinc. If kung fu so great than why do the chinese police learn muay thai and the Taiwanese tae kwon do? Also with the 1 and 3 inch punch how come no one is damaged? They just fall back having no apparent damage done to them.

[osopardo]

...with the 1 and 3 inch punch how come no one is damaged? They just fall back having no apparent damage done to them.

Little known fact that back when Bruce was doing his demos on that technique he was misquoted (prolly a language barrier problem). It was actually his intention at the time to call it the one-inch push, not punch.

Really, I got this straight from Linda a coupla years ago!

[IPON]

It was actually his intention at the time to call it the one-inch push, not punch.

I am not sure if you are joking or not Chun Ging the one inch punch and three inch punch is from wing chun not Bruce Lee, though like all things he made it popular. The purpose of the puch is to demonstrate the power of wing chun by focusing chi energy (internal power). If you stretch your fingers and then hit someone and know them back 5ft, it is far more than a push.

Now with that said, I do not agree that the 1-3 inch puch has value in combat. Winchun punching is very effective and chun ging is just an example. Like shaolin monks demonstrating iron shirt "hard"chi gong or yi jin jing, knives don't pierce the skin and boards break on the body and do not crack the bones. Demonstration of energy. But in a fight, that level of "invulnerablity cannot be maintained.