Abuse of force

[Garland]

What's your opinion, does this count?

http://v2.vidman.ca/utah_rave/

More Vids.

http://fatbaron.com/videos.html

For more info...skip to last little part of my "Just Bitchin'" thread.

[DJColdfusion]

Listen to the audio towards the end of the clip. You'll hear "Put the camera down or you're under arrest"

What a bunch of sh*t. The officer was within his rights to instruct the individual to leave the area or face arrest since that individual's presence may place themselves or others in danger. However, these guys didn't even announce their presence, they walked in with guns and shut the thing down without trying to perform any sort of investigation at all.

If drugs were present, which they were, or if the party was not properly liscensed, which it wasn't, then the cops have the right to shut it down; however, the manner in which they accomplished their mission was WAAAAYYY over the top.

How often does herding a bunch of ravers require SWAT team members in full tactical gear and a helicopter? Wave a glow wand in their face and walk them towards a giant disco ball backed by a little electronica. Sort of Moby meets the pied piper.

[DJColdfusion]

The thing that everybody is missing here is that nobody got hurt!!!

Why aren’t the police being praised for taking down hundreds of ravers with drugs and guns, without serious injuries and no shots fired?

If displaying such muscle kept people alive, isn't displaying muscle a good thing?

Yeah it may have looked mean, but it’s better than dead and injured people on both sides.

Several people were taken to local hospitals.

If the police had played it smart they would have come in dressed as ravers, identified those using and/or distributing drugs, and then shut the party down.

All they did is rush the place, beat on some dumb ass kids who didn't know what in the hell was going on, and end up with a bunch of drugs that they couldn't assign an owner to. Their only arrests were for "resisting arrest" and similar charges when they beat on someone who didn't respond quickly enough.

It was a poorly scripted attempt at pacifying an already pacified group of people.

And anytime someone in authority demands that you shut off the cameras then they know that they are in the wrong.

[BoarSpear]

I have to say that to many people in law enforcement today want to be special forces operators instead of serving and protecting the people.
The tactics that were used here are the same military tactics used to subdue and secure villages in nam. When you are outnumbered you go in hard and shock people into compliance before they realize they outnumber you and resist.
It works for the moment, but when you do this to people who were no threat to you in the first place, it leaves resentment and mistrust in your wake. it cost us the hearts and minds of the people of vietnam and today law enforcement is using this tactic on a grand scale against american citizens and our youth.
Its going to turn out to be our downfall here as it was there. MARK MY WORDS there is going to be a backlash against the jackbooted thug attitude of LEO's across the country in the near future. more and more police wear military looking uniforms with pants bloused in the boots (battle dress) to work on daily basis.
in order to scare you into cooperation. its no longer the friendly police who wave its more like dirty looks and a glare from them as they pass you on the streets these days. respect is earned and can never be intimidated into people which is the current tactic being used.
We had laws to keep our military and our leo's from training or operating together...because the mindset of a warrior and mindset of a civil servant who keeps the peace SHOULD have been two different things...it no longer is.

This is going to turn out to be one of the greatest mistakes this country has ever made. when people fear thier own government more than foriegn ones you have a problem.

[Garland]

The tactics that were used here are the same military tactics used to subdue and secure villages in nam. When you are outnumbered you go in hard and shock people into compliance before they realize they outnumber you and resist.

I thought the police were here to protect and serve, not Nap our village.
Seriously...this particular incident was FUCKED. Lying about what happened instead of saying a different course of action by the department involved is Super-Fucked.
If the police continue to appear as agressors and violently opressive...they are giving people a semi-reasonable excuse to treat them in kind.
Civilization=civility, excessive force and posturing=a sure fire road to violence.

[BoarSpear]

I thought the police were here to protect and serve, not Nap our village.
Seriously...this particular incident was FUCKED. Lying about what happened instead of saying a different course of action by the department involved is Super-Fucked.
If the police continue to appear as agressors and violently opressive...they are giving people a semi-reasonable excuse to treat them in kind.
Civilization=civility, excessive force and posturing=a sure fire road to violence.

A lesson we should have learned already...i think they probably endangered more people than they "saved" in this case anyway...what were they protecting them from? THEMSELVES? It must really suck to be a profesional buzzkill
i think they were way over the top in their response.

[BoarSpear]

so h2h are we to gather you want to become a police officer when you get out of high school?...note also it was a rave...RAVERS are the least dangerous and relaxed happy crowd around, you would have more trouble breaking up a garth brooks concert than a rave. Also ravers arent into rap music...most of them despise it...one of my students is a Rave dj so i think i know what im talking about as we have lots of raver friends around and sometimes host small informal raves...you are confusing gang bangers and hip hoppers with ravers...where are all the guns you speak of? i have never seen a raver with anything more dangerous than a glow stick and a bottle of water ...

to answer your question of breaking up the rave...

A) they had permits and the gathering was legal so there was no reason to break it up...

B) if dispersing the crowd was the ONLY issue a POLICE helicopter could have made a couple of low passes and hit the crowd with a search light and anyone with anything to hide would have high tailed it out of there... then just pick them up on the road out...because of the way they did it they werent going to be arresting anyone for drugs anyway since people just dropped them on the ground when screaming armed police began intimidating the crowd. So you see it could have been accomplished without acting like 3rd world police...YOUR OWN WORDS...But you seem to advocate that behavior from our law enforcement why? is this clip what you are looking foward to?

http://www.big-boys.com/articles/northkorea.html

WARNING EXTREME VIOLENCE...

[BoarSpear]

You are partially correct, I am planning on becoming a police officer. However I am also planning on college and a stint in the military.

awesome, its good to see kids today with a plan. study hard, pay particular attention in world history class and American Civics. Also be sure to read all the books you can that arent in the school library, because often students are limited by what the PTA likes in the library. obviously you have found the internet it can also be a great research tool take care of your self and best of luck with your career plans.