Russian Systema

[Tant01]

ROSS-Not "Systema"

...R.O.S.S. - the Russian acronym for Rossijskaya Otechestvennaya Sistema Samozashchity. In English language, this can be translated as the "Russian Native System of Self-Defense". ROSS was developed by Gen. Alexander Ivanovich Retuinskih, President of the International and All-Russian Federation of Russian Martial Art, Vice-Chairman of the International Combat Sambo ("Unarmed Combat") Commission for FIAS (International Sambo Federation) and Chairman of the Russian Combat Sambo Committee, Honored Coach of Russia. ROSS is the training system of Russian Martial Art researched and formulated by the RETAL Center and endorsed and approved by the IRFRMA, which is sanctioned and authorized by the National Olympic Committee of Russia as the sole official representative of Russian Martial Art within Russia and worldwide.


Need more?

[seiferx8]

I really dont care for more, if you say that systema was never used then both Ryabko and vasiliev were never in the spetz? I find that hard to believe.
What kind of training did they do for weapons disarming? Ak47-ryu? And how was SAMBO influenced by Aikido if SAMBO was beeing taught since 1917, and Aikido was created after WW2? Im sure SAMBO/ROSS is a great art and i would love to learn it one day, but to me it doesnt sound like a complete art. Just cause you havent found proof of systema doesnt mean it wasnt used. Either was systema is one of the most effective arts out there and I dont tink Ryabko and Vasiliev invented it over 1 nights sleep, what do you think?
I dont think the spetz just lets anyone go and train with them, In fact how do you think vasiliev gets a bunch of his students to train in russia inside a spedz camp? I didnt think the Russian special forces were that nice .
Would the Russians actually allow someone that claims to of been taught by one of stalins bodyguards to reside and teach in their country?

Anyways I dont wanna turn this discussion into another muay thai vs Wing Chun or Tai Chi vs Boxing topic. So if you think your right thats fine, I love this art and I dont care what anyone has to say about that .

[Tant01]

The system IS sambo...

Your questions lead me to think you do want more?

In 1918, comrade V. I. Lenin created Vseobuch: the organization responsible for training the Red Army. Joseph Stalin, at the time a string aid to Lenin, personally ordered a high ranking political official, named comrade Voroshilov, to organize research into human combat. Voroshilov was a an inept monster, personally responsible for hundreds of military blunders. Although incompetent and inhumane, he accomplished one grand measure, accidentally. Not wishing to toil over such a "mediocre" endeavor, in 1923, he formulated a group called the "Dynamo" to do the research.

Voroshilov assembled a retainer of combat-experienced individuals to carry out this endeavor: A. A. Kharlampiev, V. A. Spiridinov and V. S. Oschepkov. Each of these individuals were assigned the vocation of combatives investigators and sent to travel to various countries to study the endemic, native combatives. Anatoly Kharlampiev traveled west then south absorbing the Euro-Asian and Afro-Baltic combative systems. V.S. Oschepkov traveled to Japan. V. A. Spiridinov traveled to Mongolia, China, and India to study the Mongol-Vedic martial traditions. Although returning sporadically to deposit information and engage in political endeavors, the course of this investigation lasted approximately ten years.

To Asian styles such as, JuJitsu, Karate, Judo, Kung-fu and Aikido, the men added their experience with the native, Russian hand-to-hand combat, known only as "Russian Martial Art".

The reservoir of information on this investigation was to be controlled by the State. Here is the origin of what became a State-authorized falsification and distortion of technical data on Soviet combatives. Voroshilov was ordered to establish a secret, hierarchical structure to the information. At the highest and most remote level, a Close Quarters Combat system was to be devised for training by the elite forces of the former Soviet Union Special Forces and Secret Police. This Soviet Close Quarters Combat (CQC) training methods were tested for effectiveness in the Russo-Japanese War and World War I. The intent of close quarters combat was for silent killing by covert forces, personal combatives by elite forces, and torture methodologies by interrogative forces. Various combative tools were employed. Unarmed tactics such as debilitating strikes, dangerous captures, suffocation and strangulation methods, and Armed tactics such as spade, saber, bayonet, knife, baton, and pike usage were included in the curriculum. The goal of CQC is the total destruction of the enemy in the most expedient manner: a purely military doctrine.

A second tier of the system was to be employed by the general Soviet Police. This form was to be the Soviet Police Subject and Crowd Control Tactics (CCT). The CCT were fashioned into a system of Balance Displacement measures, Pressure Point Control Tactics, Joint Manipulation, and striking tactics aimed at Motor Dysfunction and Pain Compliance, and mob control weaponry, such as impact weapons and chemical agents.

Finally, at the basal level, the combatives information was to be intentionally diluted into a competitive form which would become the training regimen of the general military. In this manner, a system of personal combatives would be issued to the military that was deliberately fashioned for one purpose: information seepage into other countries. In order for the deception to be believable, not only must the new system be effective, but it had to appear to be some revolutionary advancement in training. This diluted sport form was easily trained in by the general military, who did not require advanced skills training. They had to be fit and healthy. They fought with great spirit and élan, not because they were the best prepared or best equipped, but because they were members of the ‘People’s Army’. Such a schism between the training of the grunt militia and the officer elite was not a Soviet invention, but an historical characteristic of ancient Russian martial traditions.

Voroshilov ordered V. A. Spiridinov, an officer of the Russian Army participating in the First World War, and V. S. Oschepkov, the first Russian black belt in Judo, to produce Sport SAMBO. After the October Revolution, Spiridinov became one of the training experts of combat SAMBO and aided in it’s formulation. To create Sport SAMBO, he relied upon his background in American free-style wrestling, Pankration, Greco-Roman wrestling from the Baltic States, Georgian "Chidaoba", Moldavian "Trinte", Yakut "Khapsagay", Armenian "Kokh" - the national style of wrestling of Armenia, Chuvash "Akatuj", Turkish "Kuresh" belt-wrestling from Azerbaijan,. Spiridinov was also a master of Japanese JuJitsu. V.S. Oschepkov, reared in a Japan and training in the Kodokan-judo institute was a master the Japanese combat art of JuJitsu. While in Japan, he became a close personal friend of JuJitsu master, Professor Jigora Kano...

The collaboration and friendship between Oschepkov and Kano is of marked interest. Both men agreed that the most effective method of mastery was through a technique named: method sequencing or ‘kata’. These men coordinated their efforts at cataloguing the most common and frequent forms of attack. From that they codified what would be the most expedient neutralization of the threat. It is because of this work that many contemporary Judo and Sambo practitioners are fragmented into two camps: those that prepare for combat through sequence rehearsal, and those that enjoin the competitive aspect to determine their prowess. Kano was an extremely insightful man revolutionizing martial arts training with his expertise in education. Oschepkov was outfitted with a most powerful instructional method, and carried it back to Russia, where he instructed studies in combat at the Central Red Army House and the Moscow Institute of Physical Culture.

The nucleus of SAMBO is eclectic in nature, as Spiridinov said, "While self-defencing, it’s impossible to use only one system... it’s necessary to use all useful methods from other systems, if it leads you to victory." Method Sequencing should not be rigid, it is only a guideline. Differing body types (both of the defender and of potential attackers), differing terrain, differing indoctrinations (civilian, military, police, sport) dictate the sequences in which to be trained. Individuals should not be told what to do, but educated in judgment, so that they might assess proper training methodologies.

Though having little involvement with the technical and tactical formulation of this system, Voroshilov had established the hermetic integrity of the system by virtually offering the ‘secrets’ of the USSR’s combatives to the espionage of competitive nations. Everyone would believe that they knew, or even trained in, the Soviet combatives system; even the natives would be convinced by this official version of SAMBO. Here is the important part... Even today, in the enlightened technological era, Russians, who have trained in military SAMBO, or athletes that were champion of this district or that sector, are convinced that they know what SAMBO is. However, True Sambo, known as "Combat Sambo Spetsnaz" or "the System" was something altogether different;it was the ancient Slavic martial traditions, hidden from State observation. In actually, at the highest
levels, Sambo is actually Russian Martial Art.

By placing an impure form of information for global consumption, the actual information remained unexplored: an act of unadulterated, political genius.

To name the system, attempts were first made at "SAM," then "SAMOS", and finally the group agreed upon SAMBO, an acronymic title meaning "SAMozaschityz Bez Oruzhiya" or "Self-protection without weapons". Voroshilov continued with his political maxim of ensconcing the truth by supporting this title - SAMBO. The CQC and CCT system of SAMBO comprised not only unarmed tactics, but a wealth of armed training. All the while, the deceptive name of "self-protection without weapons" perpetuated the illusion that SAMBO was merely a wrestling style and exclusively concerning unarmed engagements.

Training was held by a group of experts, who became the progenitors of SAMBO throughout the nation and the world: A. A. Kharlampiev, V. A. Spiridinov, V. S. Oschepkov, N. I. Golkovsky, I. V. Vasiliev, A. I. Chumakov, S. V. Magirovsky, V. I. Andreev, D. S. Damanin, V. F. Maslov, A. A. Budzinsky, and the brothers Niniashvili. The group was given the name, the "Dynamo," and was established in 1923. Each of these individuals equally contributed to the extensive research made into the psycho-physiological reactions to the high-stress crisis of physical confrontation, the psychology of combat survival skills, and the surveillance of the legal, medical, and tactical acceptability of combat activity; as well as, exploration of the technical considerations. In 1930, SAMBO became the curriculum of the State Central Institute of Physical Culture in Moscow.

[seiferx8]

may I have some more?

[BoarSpear]

may I have some more?

careful, you might find the beast

sup Tant01? I figured the least I could do was open the door for you...

[Hardball]

Maybe the Krav Magra people can help you market this Russian System; their great at it.

[seiferx8]

I have their phone number lying around here somewhere, then maybe you can go to a krav maga school and tell them their bs? Good stuff.

I have respect for all martial arts, I dont just start calling what others train BS, so why dont you just mind your own training and ill mind my own training.

[Hardball]

I have their phone number lying around here somewhere, then maybe you can go to a krav maga school and tell them their bs? Good stuff.

I have respect for all martial arts, I dont just start calling what others train BS, so why dont you just mind your own training and ill mind my own training.

Yep I agree, if you apply yourself, any system is beneficial.

[seiferx8]

OH YEAH, we filled up 2 pages in 1 day, good stuff.