Shiites have 60% of vote.....

[BoarSpear]

Wow, the shiites have a 60% vote in the early elections (Baghdad povince)!! I wonder if my old "OOPS, we just stepped in some Shiite" T shirts are gonna be back in style?

Hows that gonna work for US interest if the Shiites win? Wont that put a very anti American, extremist group in power? Do I see the burka making a comeback?

What are we gonna do if we dont like the newly elected govt and its policies?

[jubaji]

Are you sure you're not thinking of the Sunnis?

I'm sure he's not thinking anything specific at all, just hoping and praying that everything goes badly for American interests. That seems to be the basis of his every position.

[BoarSpear]

Yeah, i distinctly remember fighting Shiites....the guys who have the 60% lead right now....Ive never had a Sunni kill any of members of my family or friends, cant say the same for the Shiites....They can tell you this conflict started whenever they want, i lost friends in "Desert One" back in 1980 in IRAN... I lost more friends in Beriut....yeah im sure who i was fighting...the same people we seem to be supporting now.

go ahead tell me how much better the shiites are than the MORE extreme extremists We have had MAJOR problems with all of them

Exactly which time in the past has a political manipulation in the middle east gone our way in the end?

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5061884

[BoarSpear]

When is it going to dawn on people, we have NO arab friends...we deal with Arabs, but we aint buddies with ANY of them...Terorism doesnt stick to Natl boundries or religious groups...its a tactic, not a religion or political party policy...its a tactic used by terrorist. People will use any weapon that history proved effective. The middle east doesnt have a lock on terrorism...however certain themes do tend arise over and over dont they? Who were the first modern terrorists anyway?....Who used terrorist tactics first in the last 75 years?

[BoarSpear]

Sounds awfully racist, Boar. I've gotten into it with Skinheads who claim to be fundamental Christians, but I can differentiate between the radicals and the normal Americans. Are you saying that you make no distinction between the vast Iraqi majority (or even the Sunni Minority) and the insurgency? Or maybe it's just that you aren't distinguishing between Iranian terrorists, Bad Navy Pilots (a la Desert One - not a single muslim, Iranian, Iraqi, Shiite, or Sunni was the reason we lost those operators. Aside from the fact that the small terrorist cross-section kidnapped US citizens which is why we were there in the first place, Desert One was a result of horrible planning, political maneuvering, and awful flying with the wrong equipment for the job), or Lebanese and Palestinian Terrorists. I think you have a compulsion when it comes to the Middle East. First, you seem to think that any time progress is made, you need to shit all over it. On the one hand, you don't think democracy can work over there, and then as soon as it does, it's a horrible idea. Of course the Shiites are in the lead, Boar. They make up 70% or more of the population! The fact that they are such a majority and are still only lead by 10% or so means there ought to be pretty diverse representation across the board. On the other hand, you suggest that we shouldn't try to engineer the political structure or influence who wins power in Iraq, but you get all bent out of shape when the Iraqis choose candidates and leaders on their own. Which way do you want it, man?

Either we support their choices and build a good relationship, or we don't. Either we back off and allow them to come up with their own government, their own system of justice, and their own ways of running things, or we have to be the puppetmasters you accuse us of being. Do you want us to leave them alone, or do you want us to run things ourselves? I think you'd probably bitch about it either way (and so far, you have), so once again, make up your mind, and make a constructive suggestion for how things might be better, will ya?

you missed the whole point....this decades save is nothing more than next decades terrorist nation....

Navy pilots are to blame? i thought iranian terrorist who siezed American hostages and held them were the reason we mounted the rescue operation.

hey heres IRAN being trouble again...20 yrs later....hmmm we didnt solve that yet....we started bombing Iraq in 1990....we still havent worked that out....I wouldnt call Israels situation comfortable....uh yeah real stable place the middle east, the only thing they have in common is a hatred of israel and a dislike and distrust of the USA....oh and the weapons and training they got from us

interservice BS wanting to participate so they could get bigger budgets next year were the root of the debacle at desert one....not navy pilots...i do believe the airforce flys the C-130s BTW

constructive suggestion? Stop playing around in the sand box pissing off its inhabitants..... Oh wait, to late for that, we need their oil to preserve our way of life....HMMMM some of those people like the 96 percent of the opposition in IRAQ who are IRAQIS ....dont like our way of life...see that conflict of interest? Yeah...me too there wasnt anything rascist about my observation, since my family has been training and killing varied muslim sects at the behest of a Bush for the last 20 plus years. i think i have the right to be like UHHH....WTF are we doing? You cannot kill people to make friends with them...pretty soon we will have armed every side and supported every side in the middle east. we change alliances as much as the french...all because its in American interest....then when i point out Arabs act in Arab interest you accuse me of being rascist....nice, you really did work in psyops huh?

Oh yeah the labels i didnt get hung up on, or distinguish between to use your words, why bother to listen to labels? If you blow up american Military or civilians using terror tactics, youre a terrorist...if you rip out fingernails and put shock peoples testicles you are a torturer....no matter what flag you pledge to or god you worship....all the people you listed have the same goal, the removal of israel and hatred of its allies....so who cares what label they claim? Their goal or mission statement is clear.....why do we keep acting like we can buy friends when we KNOW we cant?

[BoarSpear]

I have persian friends and Arab friends, my familiy has sponsored families from several nations that we met while working in their nations....they all know about each other, but dont care to visit when the others are around. Several have commented it must be strange to have lost family members defending both from each other...all of them agree the hatred and mistrust is too deep between Arabs and persians to ever let it go...and they look at you like your crazy if you ask if the israeli's will ever get along in the middle east...

we have had lots of discussions on what to do...they said, hey we ARE (fill in the blank) and WE left the area because we see no end to this fighting....


so thats it dude, i just bitch because thats all there is to do till the killing reaches my neighborhood....see i aint traveling to foriegn lands to kill people anymore....all the people we killed their daddies 20 years ago...well they are grown up now...hence the cycles of trouble....just imagine how many young parentless people we created in iraq....and afghanistan...and wherever we invade next to protect american interest.


PEACE....through superior firepower.

[BoarSpear]

Terrorists were to blame for our having to launch a rescue. Navy pilots flying the wrong birds for the job are why we lost soldiers doing it. They managed to screw the whole mission up before the terrorists got a chance to try and shoot at our Delta guys.

uh huh, thats exactly the type of misplaced BS that keps us all looking in the wrong direction for the problem....Who told those navy pilots to fly those birds?
everyone wanting a piece of the pie was the problem ...The op launched from navy ships...your army pilots were incapable of landing on ships...i guess maybe you guys are obsolete huh most of the planet is water....maybe we should give the marines your jobs...thatll end the budget wars...the NAVY gets it all

[BoarSpear]

If you look back, it was the Naval Chief of Staff that demanded they fly those birds. I know you're a sailor and you'd like it to be someone else's fault, but everyone in Delta was vocally opposed to the use of Navy birds. The Army guys didn't want to go off the water either. Another Navy demand for part of the credit. If they'd flown over land using Army Air Corps...err, Air Force birds, things likely would have gone much smoother. As it turns out, the Army had to take matters into its own hands and create the 160th SOAR....still the baddest helo pilots on planet Earth hands down.

Incidentally, what the hell was your point in asking who told the pilots to fly those birds? Who the hell did you think it was? It was a Navy goat rope from the top Admiral on down to the poor dumb bastards that flew their helos into the planes loaded with fuel! If the Navy COS had let Beckwith do the job his way (Holy shit, there's a thought! Let the Counter Terrorism Unit plan and execute their own OP?), I doubt you and I would be talking about who you lost.

I agree dude...bullshit politics, as is the norm, got american soldiers killed...can you say Grenada...or panama...or blackhawk down....bay of pigs...vietnam....korea. Delta and Beckworth were our best bet....but dont forget you still got there on Airforce air commando birds....the ships were used because no one else had the medical and firepower backup that close after extraction....to keep it simple they chose similiar insertion plans....but it was already too mixed in services to be simple. those helos shouldnt have been used, no question....then you guys created your helo guys, the navy built team 6 and so on and so forth....here we are today, same bad guys still no solution. oh yeah why all the inter service politics? MONEY that stuff you admitted the assholes in charge are all about making...everyone has to prove their worth so they get lots of money in the next budget right?....so no one really helps anyone else out do they? Who decided it was smart to create competition for survival between our our branches of military? that doesnt benefit the country....neither does the same rivalry between the intelligence agencies....remember the non sharing that helped 9-11 happen? all about protecting their budgets....we cant share info or we might have to share Atta boys and Atta boys mean money....