Sadam Hussein gets Death Sentence

[3mptin3ss]

Look at the things Saddam has been responsible for.

saddam was captured a few years ago and had all his power taken away. he stopped being a threat years ago. the current threat iraqis face is the insurgency and the terrorists that have taken root in their country. they are they new saddam. we can talk about saddam all we want, but theres a different problem brewing in iraq. thats why i believe his trial and verdict are mostly symbolic. shit, did anyone in the world actually believe he was gonna be declared innocent??

[Troll Virus]

i think calling your fellow countrymen who dont support your opinions anti american is reprehensible.

With all due respect.
Mike did not refer to fellow countrymen, but those who were firsthand witnesses to Saddams regime.

[Tom Yum]

saddam was captured a few years ago and had all his power taken away. he stopped being a threat years ago.

Saddam was defeated in Desert Storm.

He came back into power, spun the outcome of the war into his favor and returned to his tyrannical ways over his own people.

the current threat iraqis face is the insurgency and the terrorists that have taken root in their country. they are they new saddam. we can talk about saddam all we want, but theres a different problem brewing in iraq. thats why i believe his trial and verdict are mostly symbolic.

The insurgency and terrorists taking root are still an issue, I don't think that's been downplayed; one step at a time, right? We're in and until we can assist Iraqi's in taking hold of their own country, we won't be leaving due to our own sense of responsibility as a nation...Retired Gen. Colin Powell said we broke it, now we've got to fix it.

If we withdraw, the country will be worse off....

shit, did anyone in the world actually believe he was gonna be declared innocent??

The French, maybe?

I'm poking fun of course. Hey, the French do know how to have fun.

[Troll Virus]

So far, it points to an Iraqi-run trial. I haven't done my homework on this one, but all of the staff in the courtroom are Iraqi, aren't they?

Which begs the question; "Who runs Iraq"?
Is it an independant government?
In which case, troops of other nations have no business occupying themselves there?
Is it a puppet state, with every reason to have foreign troops entrenched on its soil?

[Tom Yum]

Anyone read this?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1400065623/bookstorenow600-20

Lots of points of views pro and against Iraq from those who've served.

[Troll Virus]

thats why i believe his trial and verdict are mostly symbolic. shit, did anyone in the world actually believe he was gonna be declared innocent??

I think you're dead right.
He's guilty as sin.
It's a pity those with the option didn't 'pop a cap in his ass' a good few years ago.

I suppose it's a concern though?
Make a martyr out of him and?

[Tom Yum]

Which begs the question; "Who runs Iraq"?
Is it an independant government?

Its in a transition from a dictatorship to an independent government, perhaps a modernized, democratic-muslim society.

In which case, troops of other nations have no business occupying themselves there? Is it a puppet state, with every reason to have foreign troops entrenched on its soil?

Western nations are there to assist in the transition; it is by no means a puppet state.

[Troll Virus]

Warm glow of idealism

[Tom Yum]

Warm glow of idealism

Perpetual Optimism is a force multiplier .

Colin Powell

[3mptin3ss]

Emptyness,
I understand that you have never put on a uniform and served this country. I understand that you've never had any interaction with Iraqi refugees that were driven from Iraq after witnessing their families killed by Saddam. I understand that you have no concept of the fear that those people lived under. So I'll explain this in small words you'll be sure to understand. People feared Saddam in Iraq, whether he was behind bars or not. There were literally millions of Iraqis that expected the US to leave and Saddam to come back into power. Millions thought that Saddam would somehow beat the system and punish them all for refusing to remain loyal to him. The trial of Saddam Hussein was not about America. It wasn't about Americans, either. It was about justice for the Iraqis who had suffered and died at the hands of Saddam Hussein. You keep insinuating that this is somehow just a big circus act to get people's attention off the war effort and the problems we're having. You keep trying to steer the discussion toward the US's problems in Iraq. But that's not what the thread, or the trial, were about at all. The trial was about bringing justice to Saddam, and closure - a final feeling of freedom from daily terror - to those he vicitimized. Saddam is estimated to have killed over 500,000 Iraqis during his reign. He attempted to wipe out two separate races of people. He left behind a half-million broken families with the scars of dictatorship to remind them daily about what he could and would do to them if they attempted to resist him. So you can try to redirect the conversation all you want, but the fact is, the Iraqis have every right to celebrate. They have every reason to see this as a victory. It may be a distraction to you, but it is closure after two decades of outright terror for them.
And when I call you anti-American, it is because you have made a habit of posting threads and replies that do nothing but sling mud at the efforts of Americans both here and abroad. You do not offer anything constructive (like in this thread, you've failed to suggest anything positive to do to solve the situation), and you seem to revel in the offenses you cause. When confronted about the origins of your own prejudices, you change the subject and start calling everyone a homosexual. So prove me wrong. Make a contribution to the thread. Make some suggestions that have to do with the topic of the thread. Back them up with some evidence or opinion that can be rationally argued. Otherwise, yes. I will stand by my assessment of you.

*yawn*

another one of mike brewers useless rants about how much he doesnt like me. why dont you make a contribution to the thread instead of changing the subject back to me every single time and ranting about what you dont like about me? do we really gotta do this every week mike? i kinda got the idea after the first five or six of your rants and tirades about how much you dont like me.

[Tom Yum]

It took over six years to finally carry out the death sentence given to Timothy McVeigh, and the only reason it didn't go on even longer was because one judge abruptly refused to allow yet another appeal. Saddam's appeal is expected to last just one month, and if he is found guilty again and his sentence upheld, he will be dead within 30 days. No drain on the Iraqi taxpayers, no useless media circuses to draw attention. Swift justice.

I think that considering we have a little better than 200 years experience with these kinds of trials and we still manage to drag murder trials and sentences out for years, the Iraqis should be given credit where it is due. They ran a trial by their own judges, in their own courts, and most importantly, by their own laws. They came to their decision and passed sentence against a man who wronged them, and they will carry that out in accordance with their own laws.

Not to mention that a former leader was prosecuted and given the same sentence as a common civilian would have gotten if he'd murdered the innocent.

So far, this new democracy doesn't seem to extend preferential treatment by social class nor by ethnic divisions.

[Troll Virus]

*yawn*

another one of mike brewers useless rants about how much he doesnt like me. why dont you make a contribution to the thread instead of changing the subject back to me every single time and ranting about what you dont like about me?

Serious case of 'mememe' here.
Wow.
It's not about you!
Mikes posts aren't about you.
This forum isn't about you.


If you have a topic you want to discuss, then start a dedicated thread on it.
I'll apologise in advance for not responding, but then, maybe someone else will humour you.

[jubaji]

*yawn*

another one of mike brewers useless rants about how much he doesnt like me. why dont you make a contribution to the thread instead of changing the subject back to me every single time and ranting about what you dont like about me? do we really gotta do this every week mike? i kinda got the idea after the first five or six of your rants and tirades about how much you dont like me.

STFU, no one likes you. Go back up on the roof to wait for the aliens to take you home.

[Troll Virus]

STFU, no one likes you. Go back up on the roof to wait for the aliens to take you home.

ROFLMAO.

So what now?

Anyone care to set up a bet on what date Sadman get's executed?

I'd guess (assuming it ever happens) judicial procedure would make it three years or so from now?

I'll stick my neck out and guess at 9/11/ 2009.

[Tom Yum]

Exactly.

Which brings us to the question how are police officers selected? And what can be done to minimize the influence of those with insurgent/terrorist sympathies whom are currently in the police force and can they change the composition of this police force to make it effective at policing rather than using force to excercise age-old violence...

Iraqi leader vows shake up amid carnage

By STEVEN R. HURST, Associated Press Writer 36 minutes ago

BAGHDAD, Iraq - The Shiite prime minister promised Sunday to reshuffle his Cabinet after calling lawmakers disloyal and blaming Sunni Muslims for raging sectarian violence that claimed at least 159 more lives, including 35 men blown apart while waiting to join
Iraq's police force.


Among the unusually high number of dead were 50 bodies found behind a regional electrical company in Baqouba, 35 miles northeast of Baghdad, and 25 others found scattered throughout the capital. Three U.S. troops were reported killed, as were four British service members.

Also Sunday, the country's Sunni defense minister challenged Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's contention that the U.S. military should quickly pull back into bases and let the Iraqi army take control of security countrywide.

Defense Minister Abdul-Qadir al-Obaidi rejected calls by al-Maliki for the U.S. military to speed transfer of security operations throughout the country to the Iraqi army, saying his men still were too poorly equipped and trained to do the job.

"We are working hard to create a real army and we ask our government not to try to move too quickly because of the political pressure it feels. Our technical needs are real and that is very important, if we are to be a real force against insecurity," al-Obaidi said.

Al-Maliki wants the Americans confined to bases for him to call on in emergencies, but he boldly predicted his army could crush violence within six months if left alone to do the work.

The top U.S. commander in Iraq, Gen. George Casey last month said it would take 12 to 18 months before Iraq's army was ready to take control of the country with some U.S. backup.

Key lawmakers from al-Maliki's Islamic Dawa Party said that in the coming Cabinet shake up, which the prime minister promised during a closed-door parliament session Sunday, Interior Minister Jawad al-Bolani was at the top of the list to lose his post because police and security forces were failing to quell the unbridled sectarian killing that has reached civil war proportions in Baghdad and the center of the country.

Al-Bolani, a Shiite who was chosen in June and a month after al-Maliki's government was formed, is an independent. The United States demanded that the defense and interior posts be held by officials without ties to the Shiite political parties that control militia forces.

Al-Maliki is under pressure both from his people and the United States to curb violence, with Washington leaning on him to disband Shiite militias believed responsible, through their death squads, for much of the killings.

Al-Maliki is dependent on both Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, with its Badr Brigade military wing, and radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr's political movement for his hold on power.

The interior minister controls police and other security forces which already are infiltrated by the Badr Brigade and the Mahdi Army, the armed wing of al-Sadr's political movement.

After nearly 48 hours without reporting a death, the U.S. military said three soldiers assigned to the 1st Brigade, 1st Armored Division died Saturday of combat wounds in Anbar Province, the insurgent stronghold west of the capital. Their deaths raised to 2,848 the number of service members who have had died since the start of the war in March 2003.

Four British servicemen were killed in an attack on a patrol boat in Basra's Shatt al-Arab waterway, southern Iraq, the Ministry of Defense said in London.

In Sunday morning's bombing targeting police recruits, two men detonated explosives strapped to their bodies simultaneously, police Lt. Maitham Abdul-Razaq said. The attack, killing 35 men outside the police station near western Baghdad's Nissur Square, was one of several blasts in the capital.

Police and police recruits, who are largely Shiite Muslims, have been regularly targeted by Sunni insurgents, al-Qaida in Iraq and other terrorist organizations aligned with it.

In Baqouba, the Iraqi army's provincial public affairs office said troops found 50 bodies dumped behind the offices of the provincial electric company.

Nineteen of the bodies were taken to the morgue in Baqouba and the army was waiting for U.S. bomb disposal teams, fearing the 31 other bodies behind the electrical company were rigged with explosives.

Abdul-Razaq said Baghdad police had found 25 bullet-riddled, handcuffed bodies in several parts of the capital. Dozens more bodies were found around the country.

Al-Maliki confirmed an Associated Press report 10 days ago about the coming government shake-up during a closed-door parliament session in which he responded to public charges by lawmakers that the government was complicit in the killing of members of the Sunni minority, two parliamentarians told AP.

Some Shiites had complained al-Maliki was being unduly harsh in dealing with Shiite militia members. Al-Maliki told the lawmakers that their speeches were affecting the security situation, according to Shiite legislator Bassem al-Sharif.

Dhafer al-Ani, of the Sunni Iraqi Accordance Front, told AP that al-Maliki's comments "were disappointing because they were sidelining (Sunnis) and included threats." In remarks earlier in the week, al-Maliki blamed Sunnis alone for Iraq's violence.

On Saturday, al-Maliki told editors of local newspapers that
Syria, which the U.S. and his government accuse of allowing foreign fighters to cross into Iraq, wants to start afresh with Iraq.

"We have the same desire," al-Maliki said in a videotape of the remarks to Iraqi journalists on Saturday.

Foreign Ministry Undersecretary Labib Abbawi said Sunday that Syria's Foreign Minister Walid Moallem had accepted an invitation to visit Iraq, though no date was set.

The opening to Syria comes with the expected release in the United States of recommendations of the bipartisan Iraq Study Group, headed by former Secretary of State James A. Baker III and former Democratic Rep. Lee Hamilton of Indiana.

It was believed the commission would recommend trying, among other things, to engage both Syria and
Iran, Iraq's eastern neighbor.

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