U.S. not winning in Iraq

[BoarSpear]

"Robert Gates,President George W. Bush's choice to take over the
Pentagon, said on Tuesday America was not winning in
Iraq and warned that the Middle East could explode into violence"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061205/pl_nm/usa_gates_congress_dc_18

COULD EXPLODE? So it's gonna get worse...Good thing it isn't a civil war.

[Tom Yum]

Can we really afford to withdraw troops now?


Alright Boar is Back!

[DickHardman]

there were many articles i read about a report from top marine officials in iraq stating many months ago that they cant win militarily in the sunni areas, some of which have never been under coalition control. i even posted the link to it many times. this isn't anything new. i even heard about the update to this report which was even gloomier than before.

[Blue Wave Gym]

I agree mike but

Why do we have to play referee between the these groups of assho*es who are in a civil war and we get shot in the face for it. As of today from my state 48 soliders or marines have been killed in iraq and afganistan, three this week and another lost both his legs but thank God he's alive.
The way this war has been run is a disgrace we should have ground them in to the dirt when they ambushed and killled the contractors in fallluja in spring 2004. Fallujka brigade indeed typical

[Blue Wave Gym]

I

Don't want us to leave realize what would happen nad thank goodness for the racism between arab shites and persian shiets or we'ed have super persia.
i jut want us to Fuc*ing win the war already instead of the hand wring that the clowns in controlif it are doing. Quit putting our troops in the brig/stockade for doing thier jobs stop taking the word of the ememy over our troops when I saw abu graib I said so waht who cares. They are lauginh at us in the muslim world the're winning because we have become a bunch of crybabies Bush Sr.s melt down yesterday is a good example. If you know ababic mike(you probably do being a pshy ops guy...hooah) hten you know what the ememy is saying about us. We are cuting our own throat lets tak the gloves off like we idi in world war 2. All american should be on the same side regardless of what they think about the war It should be America F*ck Yea.....USA....USA.....USA
let's win the war already. Sorry to rant.

[BoarSpear]

From the same article...

Gates said he believed the United States was not losing the war either "at this point."

Thats a load of political double talk...IF you are on foreign soil and bogged down unable to to win or withdraw, you damn sure are in more trouble than the people fighting you from their own soil. This is basic Sun Tzu and common sense both of which seem to be beyond the grasp of certain parties.

and

"Our military forces win the battles that they fight," he said.

Another "Gem" of wisdom ..."We win the battles we fight" Where did I hear that before? Oh yeah!! VIETNAM we won the battles and lost the war...it's called 5th generation Warfare and we cant win against those tactics with our current TACTICS or Strategy.

We lost the hearts and minds of the people with our abuses and lies...AGAIN.

[Tom Yum]

Another "Gem" of wisdom ..."We win the battles we fight" Where did I hear that before? Oh yeah!! VIETNAM we won the battles and lost the war...it's called 5th generation Warfare and we cant win against those tactics with our current TACTICS or Strategy.

We lost the hearts and minds of the people with our abuses and lies...AGAIN.

How do we win the war, Boar?

We're still in the fight.

[Tom Yum]

Boar's contention is that we've lost momentum in the psychological game at home, correct?

Boar may not be pro-government, but he definitely cares about the military and men overseas and would probably prefer to see us making headway in the war effort.

[gregimotis]

If nothing else, I think it's good news that we have someone in charge who's willing to say out loud that things aren't as he'd like them to be.
Perhaps that's the man who is also willing to make the changes - which ever changes are needed.

[Tom Yum]

If nothing else, I think it's good news that we have someone in charge who's willing to say out loud that things aren't as he'd like them to be. Perhaps that's the man who is also willing to make the changes - which ever changes are needed.

Good point, gregi.

[BoarSpear]

Boar's contention is that we've lost momentum in the psychological game at home, correct?

Boar may not be pro-government, but he definitely cares about the military and men overseas and would probably prefer to see us making headway in the war effort.

Bingo!! When your leaders don't have an HONEST reason to mobilize the people to do their bidding they lie....when leaders lie every time they speak people get tired of chasing down the lies, plus they don't have to time or energy to deal with the real issues. 99% of our problems in Iraq and elsewhere stem from lies and cover-ups... None of that is going to change anytime soon.

When people stop believing in the lies told by the leaders they stop believing in the causes and fights by default.

Go back and read my posts about Iraq and Afghanistan from 6 months ago...notice how hard certain people argued with me that we were doing the right thing in those places...notice we are now screwed... nothing changed except the ability to to hide the fact things are totally fukked up.

You can't expect to continue to lie and misuse your own people and keep support at home, yet every new scandal we get caught pulling reinforces our enemies resolve...if that isn't a recipe for disaster I've never seen one.

[gregimotis]

Bingo!! When your leaders don't have an HONEST reason to mobilize the people to do their bidding they lie....when leaders lie every time they speak people get tired of chasing down the lies, plus they don't have to time or energy to deal with the real issues... You can't expect to continue to lie and misuse your own people and keep support at home...

When, or where has it ever been different? Perhaps that's a question for a new thread.

[BoarSpear]

When, or where has it ever been different? Perhaps that's a question for a new thread.

It's been out of hand for quite sometime...Too many people support those in authority simply BECAUSE they are in power, regardless of the picture their actions present to anyone willing to look. Too many cheerleading enablers supporting those in charge with their "with us or against us" mentallity gave the authoritarian personalities running the show the rope they need to hang us all.

Iraq was a “grave and gathering threat”...LIE

Iraq had “weapons of mass destruction” programs after the early 1990s...LIE

Iraq had “ties to Al Qaeda” and 9/11 .....LIE

Our invasion of Iraq was to support “Security Council resolutions”...LIE

Our invasion of Iraq was to “promote democracy”...LIE

It is better to “fight them there” than on our streets....LIE

Yet the enabling RAH RAH cheerleading section stayed onboard throughout this until today we are here with no options...thanks for nothing.

[BoarSpear]

How do we win the war, Boar?

We're still in the fight.

How do you win a war when there isn't a clear objective? If you aren't fighting for land, power, resources or freedom what are you fighting for?

Don't tell me its to make a safer world because we're making more enemies every day and the more enemies you make and "allies" you lose the more dangerous your world becomes.

Keep in mind EVERY pretense we were presented with why we went in the first place was a LIE...and you expect a strategy and tactics to win? Not happening...every action has a purpose, every purpose a reason, when the reasons and purposes were lies the actions cant possibly suit the actual problem.

[BoarSpear]

If he knew, Tom, he'd have suggested something instead of just screaming.

Unlike people who blindly reguritate whatever the leader says like a good little sheeple..

Yes it takes more gumption to stand up say 'WHOA this ain't right" than to be a gutless cheerleader when you know in your heart its wrong. Sort of like Mike Brewer's post about how he'd store depleted uranium in a sock drawer because it isn't dangerous...whatever you have to say to support the leader no matter how mindless you're willing...thats hardly an admirable quality, when you cant see reason for propaganda you're heading down a dark road.

You don't have to know the right to path to refuse the wrong one, regardless of what the psybots say over and over. It's funny how when you don't have a solution to someone else's fukk up they assume thats permission to continue their obviously wrong behavior because you cant fix the mess THEIR idea's and BEHAVIOR created.