Young Americans

[Garland]

Some articles first...

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2007/02/pat-dollard-agent-addict-killer-of-jihadis.php

http://www.newshounds.us/2007/02/12/fox_guest_eventually_i_learned_the_joys_of_killing_.php

The video clips are extremely graphic. I don't know what to say...I'm just putting this out there for discussion. It's a message I haven't really seen yet in regards to the Iraqi war...

pt 1...intro and trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isdhEDWXg4I

pt 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl-QFpGZZgM&mode=related&search=

pt 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VobAHsk5VfQ&mode=related&search=

pt 4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cZaCWD5Xww&mode=related&search=

pt 5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20HDP4eNBK8&mode=related&search=

[kingoftheforest]

POS out to make a buck by spreading propaganda. What a low crawling ass.

Kill a commie for mommie right? This is so good for the American public image it isn't even coming close to funny. This is irresponsible use of a media outlet as far as I'm concerned.

You wanna show fighting for freedom, mom, and apple pie, propaganda then fine cool. But you start making killing machines without remorse, and who thrive on that shit cause its "cool". You're making a mess you don't want to have to clean up.

[Garland]

Let's see some more opinions pop up and I'll state my position. I'm curious to see what the vets have to say.

[BoarSpear]

Well, normally I'm not a big fan of "propaganda" but this guy needs a bigger budget. I've gotta say thats a fairly entertaining song on the first vid BTW, anyone know who sings it?

[Garland]

Well, normally I'm not a big fan of "propaganda" but this guy needs a bigger budget. I've gotta say thats a fairly entertaining song on the first vid BTW, anyone know who sings it?

Wasted Youth, the song's called "**** you".
lol. seriously...it is.

So...what speaks to you...I know it isn't aligned with your politics (the guy who made it, Pat Dollard, is a staunch supporter of Bushy-boy and the thing is pro-Iraqi war.)

...hey...are you and KOTF in disagreement about something? I'm actually in shock.

[Tom Yum]

During the firefight interview, the Marines said they hadn't much firearms experience before joining. Looks like the Marines had given them the training that they need.

[BoarSpear]

Wasted Youth, the song's called "**** you".
lol. seriously...it is.

So...what speaks to you...I know it isn't aligned with your politics (the guy who made it, Pat Dollard, is a staunch supporter of Bushy-boy and the thing is pro-Iraqi war.)

...hey...are you and KOTF in disagreement about something? I'm actually in shock.

If His intent was to show how cool and fun War is, I think he did a great job.

And yeah KOTF and I do disagree sometimes...LOL.

We both agree the guy who did the documentary is an asshole... I doubt this film is gonna tell any Iraqis anything about this war they don't already know....but quite a few Young Americans just might learn a few things.

I wouldnt be surprised at all if this didnt turn people off from joining in the "fun." It also wouldnt surprise me if that was his real intent all along...its so over the top its nearly a parody. I love how he tells the Marines what it is they're finding (heads and electronic timers) and not to **** up his movie...No doubt he was a Bush supporter...a completely insane one, give his ass a bigger budget, lets see some more "Fun."

Seriously Bro, did that shit make YOU wanna join? Did ANY of that look like the people involved were having fun? What I saw was troops pinned down in areas the enemy has bracketed with Mortars and snipers. Hell even the chow hall is bracketed...yeah, "oh please God, let this be over" Yep they seemed to be havin' a blast.

[Garland]

I wouldnt be surprised at all if this didnt turn people off from joining in the "fun." It also wouldnt surprise me if that was his real intent all along...its so over the top its nearly a parody. I love how he tells the Marines what it is they're finding (heads and electronic timers) and not to **** up his movie...No doubt he was a Bush supporter...a completely insane one, give his ass a bigger budget, lets see some more "Fun."

Seriously Bro, did that shit make YOU wanna join? Did ANY of that look like the people involved were having fun? What I saw was troops pinned down in areas the enemy has bracketed with Mortars and snipers. Hell even the chow hall is bracketed...yeah, "oh please God, let this be over" Yep they seemed to be havin' a blast.

I don't think it was his intention to scare people out of enlisting...he's just so tweaked and gacked out, and just downright fucking crazy he goes overboard. He's taken the Full Metal Jacket thing to the extreme and for real. Full Metal Jacket was an intense anti-war film, yet some people watch it and go- holy shit, I want to do that! I want to be a bad ass! I wants to kill me some fucking people. Whoo ha.

Some people are drawn to that. Especially my jaded, sick ass, bumfightin', jerry springerin', gang banging, hard-ass posing generation.

The best article I've read on this thing is "War on Hollywood" in Vanity Fair...I tried to find an online link...but sadly couldn't get one to hook up. This Dollard guy is out of his mind.

[kingoftheforest]

Problem

The problem Boar is most teens have ADD and will only see that all those bloody violent video games, you know the ones like SOCOM Navy Seal and Call of Duty 500 (or whatever number they're on).

Then add the rock music and it is a video game. Its the idea of tricking people by putting the truth in front of them but distracting them with something else and a suggestion.

This is like a very bad media attempt at slight of hand. It shows that either we are or at least they think our youth is that easily dupped and distracted.

Above all else lets remember the new generation is all about "Keepin it real".

[Tom Yum]

Full Metal Jacket was an intense anti-war film, yet some people watch it and go- holy shit, I want to do that! I want to be a bad ass! I wants to kill me some fucking people. Whoo ha.

Training these men to become mature professionals seems like a helluva job, but it happens.

The function of the Drill Sargeant or Drill Instructor is to take a kid or a man and make him into a Soldier or a Marine.

I'm not sure what kind of people make the best soldiers? I assume that there's people from all kinds of backgrounds.

My guess (and it is a guess at best) is the man who takes his profession seriously, trains like its real when he's on the field, is able to pull the trigger or cut with his blade if the time comes, even though he's scared sh!tless - but is in control of his feelings and keeps a compassion for people.

Mike's a psy-ops guy, so this is his area of expertise. Boar's got team experience too. You know best.

[Tom Yum]

You wanna show fighting for freedom, mom, and apple pie, propaganda then fine cool. But you start making killing machines without remorse, and who thrive on that shit cause its "cool". You're making a mess you don't want to have to clean up.

How do you mold a soldier or marine to the point where they can kill but not go out on a murderous rampage and keep their cool?

I can see alot of factors coming into this: age, life experience, belief systems and perhaps a code of behavior?

[BoarSpear]

The problem Boar is most teens have ADD and will only see that all those bloody violent video games, you know the ones like SOCOM Navy Seal and Call of Duty 500 (or whatever number they're on).

Then add the rock music and it is a video game. Its the idea of tricking people by putting the truth in front of them but distracting them with something else and a suggestion.

This is like a very bad media attempt at slight of hand. It shows that either we are or at least they think our youth is that easily dupped and distracted.

Above all else lets remember the new generation is all about "Keepin it real".

Much like I thought Gore getting elected and trying to take the guns from the country might have been good for the country in the long run...I think the younger generation getting an eye/belly full of the lies and BS just might wake them up....they will see the difference in reality and the propaganda first hand...nothing better than reality for keeping it real...in the vid when the soldiers are discussing the stupid leadership that got them ambushed you might notice they were being sarcastic when they said thanks for leading them into an ambush any fool knew knew was coming (they thanked him for leading them back down the same road they went up, SUICIDE really)...when the kids see first hand how stupid and out of touch and thus DANGEROUS their leadership is it's a good thing....they learn the only thing you can expect from above is lies, and covering their own ass with ZERO concern for your welfare or mission completion (or they wouldn't have you run missions in STUPID ways that GUARANTEE you will be ambushed)....this goes along with the Helicopter that was shot down ALONE and on a POST Maintenance flight awhile back I commented on....POLICIES that CAUSE senseless death that ANY 17 yr old in the field knows better than to try. YET... NONE of the officers do anything to fix these policies...the kids learn and the survivors WILL tell their friends. Troops who dislike/distrust their leadership NEVER perform well in combat, the leadership is sowing the seeds of its own defeat with every lie and stupid command decision.

KOTF, never forget I was the poster child for the "Kill a Commie for Mommie" generation, You've met my family, those who don't serve never have their name spoken by the family again...I WANTED to spend my life in the Military "serving my country" reality snapped me out of the fairy tale it'll do the same for kids who only signed up for college and fun I assure you.

[kingoftheforest]

I guess some life lessons have to be learned first hand.

[kingoftheforest]

How do you mold a soldier or marine to the point where they can kill but not go out on a murderous rampage and keep their cool?

I can see alot of factors coming into this: age, life experience, belief systems and perhaps a code of behavior?

We have all seen how well a "Code of behavior" works with the people in charge of prisoners.

But then again how can you expect the military to act civil when the examples the elected officials give are so poor. What do you do with that as a Commander in Chief? The senior officers are supposed to set an example right?

[BoarSpear]

It's a simple fact (and a rather obvious one) that soldiers who believe in a fight go out of their way to win them, soldiers who don't believe in the fight go out of their way to survive...that alone makes a HUGE difference in the outcome of any campaign. It's also been proven when leaders lie and manipulate the troops into wars when the hearts and minds of the very Machine aren't behind the war it fails. Why would the Senior NCO's and officers fail to take an enemy and their training (to win) seriously? Perhaps because they constantly tell the leadership one thing and watch them do the opposite...they distrust and dislike the leader and question his motives which put them into the tight spot they now find themselves...they decide to survive at whatever cost...but winning never enters their mind...history has proven it EVERY time.