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  • black water security expelled from iraq

    BAGHDAD - The Iraqi government announced Monday it was ordering Blackwater USA, the security firm that protects U.S. diplomats, to leave the country after what it said was the fatal shooting of eight Iraqi civilians following a car bomb attack against a State Department convoy.

    The order by the Interior Ministry, if carried out, would deal a severe blow to U.S. government operations in Iraq by stripping diplomats, engineers, reconstruction officials and others of their security protection.

    The presence of so many visible, aggressive Western security contractors has angered many Iraqis, who consider them a mercenary force that runs roughshod over people in their own country.

    Sunday's shooting was the latest in a series of incidents in which Blackwater and other foreign contractors have been accused of shooting to death Iraqi citizens. None has faced charges or prosecution.

    Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice telephoned Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki late Monday and the two agreed to conduct a "fair and transparent investigation" and hold any wrongdoers accountable, said Yassin Majid, an adviser to the prime minister. Rice was expected to visit the Mideast on Tuesday.

    Deputy State Department spokesman Tom Casey said Rice "told the prime minister that we were investigating this incident and wanted to gain a full understanding of what happened."

    "She reiterated that the United States does everything it can to avoid such loss of life, in contrast to the enemies of the Iraqi people who deliberately target civilians," Casey said.

    Majid made no mention of the order to expel Blackwater, and it was unlikely the United States would agree to abandon a security company that plays such a critical role in American operations in Iraq.

    The U.S. clearly hoped the Iraqis would be satisfied with an investigation, a finding of responsibility and compensation to the victims' families — and not insist on expelling a company that the Americans cannot operate here without.

    Details of Sunday's incident were unclear.

    Interior Ministry spokesman Abdul-Karim Khalaf said eight civilians were killed and 13 were wounded when contractors believed to be working for Blackwater USA opened fire on civilians in the predominantly Sunni neighborhood of Mansour in western Baghdad.

    "We have canceled the license of Blackwater and prevented them from working all over Iraqi territory. We will also refer those involved to Iraqi judicial authorities," Khalaf said.

    He said witness reports pointed to Blackwater involvement but added that the shooting was still under investigation. One witness, Hussein Abdul-Abbas, said the explosion was followed by about 20 minutes of heavy gunfire and "everybody in the street started to flee immediately."

    U.S. officials said the motorcade was traveling through Nisoor Square on the way back to the Green Zone when the car bomb exploded, followed by volleys of small-arms fire that disabled one of the vehicles but caused no American casualties.

    Blackwater said the company had not been formally notified of any expulsion.

    "Blackwater's independent contractors acted lawfully and appropriately in response to a hostile attack in Baghdad on Sunday," spokeswoman Anne E. Tyrrell said in a statement late Monday.

    "The `civilians' reportedly fired upon by Blackwater professionals were in fact armed enemies and Blackwater personnel returned defensive fire," she said. "Blackwater regrets any loss of life but this convoy was violently attacked by armed insurgents, not civilians, and our people did their job to defend human life."

    American officials refused to explain the legal authority under which Blackwater operates in Iraq or say whether the company was complying with the order. It also was unclear whether the contractors involved in the shooting were still in Iraq.

    The incident drew attention to one of the controversial American practices of the war — the use of heavily armed private security contractors who Iraqis complain operate beyond the control of U.S. military and Iraqi law.

    The events in Mansour also illustrate the challenge of trying to protect U.S. officials in a city where car bombs can explode at any time, and where gunmen blend in with the civilian population.

    "The Blackwater guys are not fools. If they were gunning down people, it was because they felt it was the beginning of an ambush," said Robert Young Pelton, an independent military analyst and author of the book "Licensed to Kill."

    "They're famous for being very aggressive. They use their machine guns like car horns. But it's not the goal to kill people."

    In one of the most horrific attacks of the war, four Blackwater employees were ambushed and killed in Fallujah in 2004 and their charred bodies hung from a bridge over the Euphrates River.

    But Iraqis have long complained about high-profile, heavily armed security vehicles careering through the streets, with guards pointing weapons at civilians and sometimes firing warning shots at anyone deemed too close. And Iraqi officials were quick to condemn the foreign guards.

    Al-Maliki late Sunday condemned the shooting by a "foreign security company" and called it a "crime."

    Interior Minister Jawad al-Bolani described the shooting as "a crime about which we cannot be silent."

    "Everyone should understand that whoever wants good relations with Iraq should respect Iraqis," al-Bolani told Al-Arabiya television. "We are implementing the law and abide by laws, and others should respect these laws and respect the sovereignty and independence of Iraqis in their country."

    Defense Minister Abdul-Qadir al-Obaidi told Iraqi television that "those criminals" responsible for deaths "should be punished" and that the government would demand compensation for the victims' families.

    Despite threats of prosecution, government spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh told Alhurra television that contractors cannot be prosecuted by Iraqi courts because "some of them have immunity."

    In April, the Defense Department said about 129,000 contractors of many nationalities were operating in Iraq — nearly as many as the entire U.S. military force before this year's troop buildup.

    About 4,600 contractors are in combat roles, such as protecting supply convoys along Iraq's dangerous, bomb-laden highways.

    Blackwater, a secretive North Carolina-based company run by a former Navy SEAL, is among the biggest and best known security firms, with an estimated 1,000 employees in Iraq and at least $800 million in government contracts.

    In May 2007, a Blackwater employee shot and killed a civilian who was thought to be driving too close to a company security detail.

    Last Christmas Eve, an inebriated Blackwater employee shot and killed a security guard for an Iraqi vice president, according to Iraqi and U.S. officials. The contractor made his way to the U.S. Embassy where Blackwater officials arranged to have him flown home to the United States, according U.S. officials who spoke only on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the media.

    The contractor has been fired and Blackwater is cooperating with federal investigators, company spokeswoman Anne Tyrrell has said.

  • #2
    i wonder how this will affect iraq, and our military over there.

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    • #3
      This is the reason we all carried cash had had an exit plan if something like this were to happen.


      But like most things the whole story isn't known just the sensational part.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by darrianation View Post

        But like most things the whole story isn't known just the sensational part.
        tell us what you know. give us the real deal on whats happening over there.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by DickHardman View Post
          tell us what you know. give us the real deal on whats happening over there.
          Why not find out for yourself...first hand...

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Tom Yum View Post
            Why not find out for yourself...first hand...
            i have no desire to join an illegal war that our country was duped into, which has caused the deaths, disfigurement and displacement of hundreds of thousands of human beings.

            i may not be the best person around, but at the very least i can sleep at night knowing that i dont have anyones blood on my hands.

            war is hell. i dont want any part of it, unless im forced into it because my country is being invaded.

            call me a pussy, or a coward if you want. i want no part of that, i dont want to see any of that. watching on the internet is disturbing enough. i dont want to experience it. i consider myself very lucky not to have experienced war. i hope to keep it that way.

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            • #7
              I have heard different accounts of what happened. My sources are very reliable but they are also biased to some degree. Although I do not want to talk for those guys I can say I understand the dilemma very well. Failure to act gets you or one of your buddies’s killed. Sometimes it becomes walking that very thin line between "Should I pull the trigger or shouldn’t I". You learn real fast if you have to ask yourself that question you better pull that trigger. Sometimes you’re wrong. Unfortunately some folks get to the point where it is “better to be wrong than sorry”.

              I’ve seen folks shoot when they should have never put their finger on the trigger and I’ve seen folks who should have shot but didn’t. I have also seen very evil men working as contractors who enjoy killing and will kill for very little to no reason at all but just for the joy of killing. No matter what anyone tells you killing gets to be very easy after a while. But most are good men but even for the goodguys it is a very thin and dangerous line they walk.

              It is very easy for folks to sit at home in their lazy boys or behind their desks and pass judgemnet on something they know nothing about. Becuase men llike these (soldiers and security contractors) do everyday what most folks can never do.

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              • #8
                What you have to remember is they (the Blackwater operatives) were attacked and it isn’t always easy to differentiate between citizen and insurgent.

                Some of the problem is the Iraqis don’t like contractors and I think this is the first step of a larger crackdown.

                However, Blackwater works under the DoS license, and the revocation of Blackwater's "license" by the Iraqis may likely have little to no affect on their operations.

                However I’ve heard the BBC has stated that all Blackwater personnel except those involved in the incident are to leave Iraq...I will be surprised if this proves to be correct because what I have been told so far, Blackwater is to remain in Iraq, and that the Dept of State has no intention of getting rid of them. Blackwater has the biggest security contract with State Dept and they are happy with their performance in country.

                But if push came to shove, these corporations only exist on paper, Blackewater could simply reorganize, creating what is in reality a wholly-owned subsidiary, but which on paper is a separate organization. That new organization could then take over. Same contractors, same owners, same signature on the checks--the only difference being a new name.

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                • #9
                  US resumes Blackwater convoys in Iraq

                  US resumes Blackwater convoys in Iraq
                  By KATARINA KRATOVAC, Associated Press Writer1 hour, 8 minutes ago

                  American convoys under the protection of Blackwater USA resumed on Friday, four days after the U.S. Embassy suspended all land travel by its diplomats and other civilian officials in response to the alleged killing of civilians by the security firm.

                  A top aide to Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki had earlier conceded it may prove difficult for the Iraqi government to follow through on threats to expel Blackwater and other Western security contractors.

                  The aide, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation into Sunday's shooting was ongoing, said a way out of the Blackwater crisis could be the payment of compensation to victims' families and an agreement from all sides on a new set of rules for their operations in Iraq.

                  U.S. Embassy spokeswoman Mirembe Nantongo said the decision to resume land travel outside the heavily fortified Green Zone was made after consultations with the Iraqi governments. She said the convoys will be limited to essential missions.

                  Nantongo declined to comment on an Interior Ministry report that officials said concluded that Blackwater guards opened fire Sunday from four positions on a square in western Baghdad after a vehicle near their convoy failed to stop.

                  "We're waiting for the results of the investigation, which we are conducting as quickly as we can," she said.

                  The U.S. ban announced Tuesday had confined most American officials to the Green Zone, a 3 1/2-square-mile area in the center of the city that houses the American Embassy and thousands of U.S. soldiers and contractors.
                  The decision kept them from visiting U.S.-funded construction sites or Iraqi officials elsewhere in the country except by helicopter — an indication of how dependent the State Department is on Blackwater protection.

                  Blackwater has said its employees acted "lawfully and appropriately" in response to an armed attack against a State Department convoy. Several Iraqi witnesses and officials claimed the security guards were the first to open fire.

                  U.S. and Iraqi officials have formed a joint committee to probe the widely differing accounts.

                  Interior Ministry spokesman Maj. Gen. Abdul-Karim Khalaf said a report found that the security guards opened fire first on Iraqi drivers.

                  The report, Khalaf said, recommended annulling a legal provision that gives immunity to foreign security companies operating in Iraq. It also recommended Blackwater compensate the victims' families and that all foreign security companies be replaced by Iraqi companies.

                  According to Khalaf, a car bomb detonated around noon Sunday near al-Rahman mosque in Mansour, a mile north of Nisoor Square. "Minutes later, two mortar rounds landed nearby Nisoor Square and they (Blackwater) thought that they were under attack," Khalaf said.

                  "They started shooting randomly from four positions in the square, killing 11 civilians and injuring 12 others. The first one who was killed was a driver who failed to stop and then his wife," Khalaf said.

                  Meanwhile, followers of Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani refused to attend Friday sermons in their mosques in the southern city of Basra, in protest of the overnight assassination of two aides to the country's top Shiite cleric — one in Diwaniyah province and the other in in the southern Basra area.
                  The deaths bring to at least five the number of al-Sistani aides slain since early August but it remains unclear if the killings reflect internal Shiite disputes or are the work of Sunni insurgents opposed to the vast influence enjoyed by al-Sistani over Iraq's Shiites and politics since Saddam Hussein's 2003 ouster.

                  Al-Sistani's office in the holy city of Najaf declined to comment on the latest slayings. Basra Gov. Mohammed al-Waili called on the government to step up measures to protect clerics.

                  The reclusive cleric, who is in his 70s and commands the deep respect of Iraq's majority Shiites, has been the target of at least one assassination attempt since 2003.

                  In Baghdad, the U.S. military said Friday an American soldier was killed in an explosion Thursday in the volatile Diyala province north of the Iraqi capital. Another U.S. soldier died in a non-combat related incident in Tamim province Thursday.

                  Also Friday, a roadside bomb killed a Romanian soldier near Tallil in southern Iraq, the Romanian defense ministry said.

                  Separately, authorities in the autonomous Kurdish region in northern Iraq called for the release of an Iranian detained by U.S. forces Thursday in Sulaimaniyah.


                  The U.S. military said he was smuggling in roadside bombs as a member of the elite Iranian paramilitary Quds Force, which is accused by the United States of arming and training Shiite militias in Iraq.

                  A Kurdish government stement said the man was part of an Iranian delegation of economists and businessmen, with an "official invitation." A spokesman, Fuad Hussein, said the detention was "illegitimate."

                  The U.S. detentions of Iranians — including five grabbed during a U.S. raid in the northern city of Irbil — is a sensitive subject for Iraqi officials trying to balance the interests of their rival U.S. backers and Iran, powerful allies of the Shiite-led government.

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                  • #10
                    The Irony here is that Iraqi ministry forces under al-Maliki have killed just as many civilians as all the contractors in Iraq have.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by darrianation View Post
                      The Irony here is that Iraqi ministry forces under al-Maliki have killed just as many civilians as all the contractors in Iraq have.
                      at this point, i doubt theres anyone left in iraq who doesnt have blood on their hands. everyones just killing eachother.

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                      • #12
                        Maybe we should simply install and back a ruthless heavy handed dictator that will keep everyone in line including all our enemies in the region including the folks next door so we can bring our boys home for a well deserved ice cold beer.

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                        • #13
                          I was telling of some of my experiences in another thread which got me thinking about the future of private contractors.

                          A war typically ends when one side, usually the state, suffers moral collapse and loses the will to fight like what we saw in Vietnam which is in contrast to disrupting a states ability to make war like what we saw in World War II.

                          If you think the wars such as what is going on in Iraq will end this way using the old formula you would be wrong. The old formulas do not apply anymore. We won’t see the moral decay that traditionally limited the state’s ability to wage long protracted guerrilla wars mostly do to improvements in marketing. Though there are other reasons for this such as using better market researched propaganda and using “terrorism” as the primary reason for going to war. Another very important reason is that of “privatizing” war.

                          Private armies are likely the most critical factor that makes perpetual warfare possible. The reason is privatization mutes moral opposition to war. Think of it as the military partnering up with private corporations to fight wars in such a way that it lessons the moral impact on the opposition.

                          The only hurdle left to fighting a long guerrilla war is the ability to pay for it. The only thing that can make it stop is opposing further financing of such a war.

                          So unless the funding stops there will always be Companies like Blackwater running around in the war zones across the world. In fact don't be supprised to see them filling bigger roles in the future.

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