creatine owns

[HtTKar]

taking creatine is the equivilant of taking a vitamin supplement. do u guys look down on taking vitamin supplements too?

I had a discussion with a buddy of mine about these things. With all these superstar athletes taking "Performance enhancing drugs", how is it going to be regulated? Where does it end?

See they can regulate the olympics and professional venues. But they cant regulate the fatass at home that wants to put on some muscle without working out. There will always be people willing to invest their fortunes in looking better, getting stronger, and being healthier, but try and get them into a gym and they laugh.

Creatine is NOT a vitamin it's an amino acid that is created naturally within your muscles and within the muscles of all vertibrates. Early strongmen used to eat pounds of red meat to gain the effects of creatine, now it's in pill form.

But where does it stop. Testosterone and its precursor androstenedione are also naturally produced within humans, leads to increased strength, endurance, speed, etc. What would you think of someone that was shooting up testosterone to help his game? After all, its natural stuff.

Believe me, I'm not knocking you for taking creatine, or anything else that you want. Just that I personally would feel (if I took that kind of stuff) that everything and every gain that I had thereafter was only a biproduct of "performance enhancing drugs". I would start to wonder exactly what I was capable of doing on my own. Martial arts, for me, is kind of a way to find exactly what I'm capable of...I dont want any illusions.

[EmptyneSs]

u are really misinformed.

I had a discussion with a buddy of mine about these things. With all these superstar athletes taking "Performance enhancing drugs", how is it going to be regulated? Where does it end?

creatine is not a drug. creatine is not a "performance enhancing drug". its a nutrient that hydrates your muscles by cells retaining water more, allowing your muscles to perform longer and better than before. its not even close to a steroid, its a dietary supplement

See they can regulate the olympics and professional venues. But they cant regulate the fatass at home that wants to put on some muscle without working out. There will always be people willing to invest their fortunes in looking better, getting stronger, and being healthier, but try and get them into a gym and they laugh.

thats not true either because most people who take creatine take it are people who workout and play sports and want to increase intensity in training. taking creatine doesnt cost a fortune either, its actually pretty cheap and comes in large amounts and can be bought anywere. its been around for years and has been studied and no harmful sidefects come have been found. what it does is really very simple, it hydrates u better so ur muscles will have better endurance and strength for when u workout or do some physically demanding activity.

Creatine is NOT a vitamin it's an amino acid that is created naturally within your muscles and within the muscles of all vertibrates. Early strongmen used to eat pounds of red meat to gain the effects of creatine, now it's in pill form.

creatine is closer to a vitamin than a steroid as u mindlessly keep repeating. its a nutrient and its not bad for you. unlike a steroid, creatine doesnt have any negative side effects, all thats happening is your body is more hydrated. u really dont know what you are talking about.

But where does it stop. Testosterone and its precursor androstenedione are also naturally produced within humans, leads to increased strength, endurance, speed, etc. What would you think of someone that was shooting up testosterone to help his game? After all, its natural stuff.

uh no, creatine and the bull hormones people inject themselves with arent alike in any way whatsoever. again, u dont know what u are talking about, creatine and steroids arent the same thing in any way at all. thats like saying if u are sick and need some extra vitimin C to boost your immunity u better not take any because that would be "performance enhancing".

Believe me, I'm not knocking you for taking creatine, or anything else that you want. Just that I personally would feel (if I took that kind of stuff) that everything and every gain that I had thereafter was only a biproduct of "performance enhancing drugs". I would start to wonder exactly what I was capable of doing on my own. Martial arts, for me, is kind of a way to find exactly what I'm capable of...I dont want any illusions.

again, creatine is not drug. it does enhance performance and endurance though because your body doesnt get dehydrated as fast it normally would. not only are there no side effects, but u being less tired than normal = more time to train hard in ma, which again i dont see the downside too.

[koto_ryu]

There actually are some natural hormonal levels in your own body similar to creatine, but the unfortunate part of taking a creatine supplement, even for a short while, is that it lowers your natural levels so you're going to end up having to use it as a supplement for the rest of your life.

[Garland]

There actually are some natural hormonal levels in your own body similar to creatine, but the unfortunate part of taking a creatine supplement, even for a short while, is that it lowers your natural levels so you're going to end up having to use it as a supplement for the rest of your life.

BS....but it does kill your liver.
Your body has a wonderful knack for regrouping and helping itself out...otherwise people who did heroin would never be able to quit, same with alchohol...you can die faster from alchohol withdrawls than opiate withdrawls....just some food for thought.

[EmptyneSs]

There actually are some natural hormonal levels in your own body similar to creatine, but the unfortunate part of taking a creatine supplement, even for a short while, is that it lowers your natural levels so you're going to end up having to use it as a supplement for the rest of your life.

yeah thats not true either, creatine if anything increases growth hormone levels in your body wich is good for you. also creatine does not harm your liver or kidneys. please, dont just say shit for the **** it, actually know what u are talking about.

instead of posting false claims and not having any clue as to what you are saying all u guys have to do is type in creatine safety in a search engine or google to get info about creatine, which u will see if totally safe, has no side effects, and contains many benefits.

[Garland]

yeah thats not true either, creatine if anything increases growth hormone levels in your body wich is good for you. also creatine does not harm your liver or kidneys. please, dont just say shit for the **** it, actually know what u are talking about.

instead of posting false claims and not having any clue as to what you are saying all u guys have to do is type in creatine safety in a search engine or google to get info about creatine, which u will see if totally safe, has no side effects, and contains many benefits.

All of the sports trainers and sports med people I've talked to have told me to stay away from Creatine because it messes up your liver...but so does drinking or taking tylenol...so...WTF ever...bro.

[HtTKar]

I never said creatine was a steriod. I stated that it was an amino acid.
Creatine is definitely not a vitamin or a mineral, But it is performance enhancing in the quantities you are taking. Otherwise, why would you be taking it? And it is a drug, dont fool yourself.

Drug:
1a substance other than food intended to affect the structure or function of the body
2something and often an illicit substance that causes addiction, habituation, or a marked change in consciousness

I brought up testosterone and androstenediol/androstenedione because people are now making available other sources of these hormones. It's already been banned by the olympics, and is in herbal form. Yep, many plants create these hormones too. examples; sarsparalla, licorice, yellow pine.
Is it OK to take an herbal super-concentrated form of testosterone? My point was..where do they draw the line?

Humans have the ability to work all day long, in the sun, for years on end with little food or water. Look at homestead farmers. Think they need supplements to get the job done? I dont care what drugs you take, what you do with your spare time, or anything else. It's not my bussines. But creatine is not the miracle drug you say it is. It doesnt OWN anything. I know several people that take it and all it does is make them fat.

Creatine does often get compared with steroids. But its now wonder why, considering the man that invented it found it by doing "Drug Research", he has also created many other forms of testosterone, anti-estrogen, faster delivery systems, etc. More can be found about Brian Batcheldor at the link below if you really want to see where people are headed.

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459601

[Garland]

Did you just define drugs???
man...everything's a drug...
and sobreity is relative to the individual.

[HtTKar]

Garland, I had to.
In response to this quote

again, creatine is not drug. it does enhance performance and endurance

I just couldnt' let that slide.
Did you read the link I posted. Interesting stuff there.

[EmptyneSs]

I never said creatine was a steriod. I stated that it was an amino acid.
Creatine is definitely not a vitamin or a mineral, But it is performance enhancing in the quantities you are taking. Otherwise, why would you be taking it? And it is a drug, dont fool yourself.

creatine is not a drug, its a nutrient. creatine is naturally made in small doses in my body already, are u telling me my body creates drugs?

Drug:
1a substance other than food intended to affect the structure or function of the body

alot of things can fall into this catagory, its easy to generalize.

2something and often an illicit substance that causes addiction, habituation, or a marked change in consciousness

hmm, well creatine doesnt fit this description at all since it doesnt cause any of those symptoms

I brought up testosterone and androstenediol/androstenedione because people are now making available other sources of these hormones. It's already been banned by the olympics, and is in herbal form. Yep, many plants create these hormones too. examples; sarsparalla, licorice, yellow pine.
Is it OK to take an herbal super-concentrated form of testosterone? My point was..where do they draw the line?

that still has nothing to do with creatine, there are many things u can take that are harmfull for you and many things that are good for you. stop generalizing.

Humans have the ability to work all day long, in the sun, for years on end with little food or water. Look at homestead farmers. Think they need supplements to get the job done? I dont care what drugs you take, what you do with your spare time, or anything else. It's not my bussines. But creatine is not the miracle drug you say it is. It doesnt OWN anything. I know several people that take it and all it does is make them fat.

no creatine is not NEEDED nor did i ever say it was. all i said is that i experimented with it for a week and saw positive results from it thats all. u can do just fine without it.

Creatine does often get compared with steroids. But its now wonder why, considering the man that invented it found it by doing "Drug Research", he has also created many other forms of testosterone, anti-estrogen, faster delivery systems, etc. More can be found about Brian Batcheldor at the link below if you really want to see where people are headed.

yeah creatine does get compared to steroids, but only by people like you who are deeply misinformed.

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459601

again, i dont know why u keep trying to compare creatine to taking testosterone and whatnot, they arent even close to being the same thing.


and garland, creatine has been around for a few decades now and after all the studies they did they never found it to be harmful to health in anyway. they only way u could damage yourself is if u abused creatine, and took rediclously high doses all the time. then again, too much of anything is bad, but using the recommended intake for creatine will not cause any dmg.

heres the real deal about creatine

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2003/sep2003_report_creatine_01.htm

http://www.absolute-creatine.com/4.htm

http://www.creatineworld.com/creatine_monohydrate.php

[koto_ryu]

creatine is not a drug, its a nutrient. creatine is naturally made in small doses in my body already, are u telling me my body creates drugs?

Using it as a supplement will lower its creation in your body is what we're trying to get across and you will have to always use supplements after a certain period of taking it as your body won't produce as much as it has before. All that just for water weight and nothing else? Not worth it.

Side-effects of creatine that are coming out (old-time users are now currently experiencing these, they never came up before now) include:

**Liver damage
**Raising blood pressure
**Muscles may not be as "hard" due to water retention
**Rare occurences of kidney stones
**Unknown effects on the heart (still being researched)
**Diarrhea
**Influence on insulin production
**Feedback inhibition of endogenous creatine synthesis (meaning your body won't make it at some point)
**Long-term damages on renal and kidney function
**Crystallization of uric acid in the joints, causing sharp arthritic pains
**

Also interesting of note:
1) France no longer sells creatine due to the fact that many of the supplements come from bovines and it's difficult to rule out the "mad cow" factor.
2) "Adverse effects caused by creatine supplementation were reported by 26% of users (Gastrointestinal disturbances and muscle cramps, as well as liver and kidney dysfunction have been reported in healthy individuals) - South Med J 2001 Jun"
3) "Creatine Under Investigation: recent deaths of 3 collegiate wrestlers are being investigated to determine role of creatine supplementation. - Rice University
4) "Studies show that creatine supplemen- tation, in the common dosages used, result in urinary concentrations (of creatinine) that are 90 times greater than normal. (Vanderberghe) There is possibility for a variety of nephrotoxic, i.e., kidney damaging, events. A damaged kidney is an irreversible injury. There is potential for direct toxicity on renal tubules where urine is formed, and for acceleration of kidney stone formation."
5) "Creatine phosphate is actually produced and stored by the kidneys and liver. So.... If the body is receiving an external supply of creatine, it will automatically shut down all production. This will create a condition, chemical dependency, making creatine a DRUG"
6) "The surgeons who knows better then the fools that take creatine said "You know how many people I operate on who take that creatine because there organs fail"."

http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/creatine/creatine-side-effects.htm

http://www.veropax.com/side-effects-creatine.htm

http://www.nutritionalsupplements.com/workgnc.html

^ You'll also see some people supporting it, but some of them have the wrong ideas as well.

There's much more info out there, this is just a small slice. And obviously, we know what the **** we're talking about...

[Broadsword2004]

Wow, lots of info here, thanks for the info, as I was maybe thinking of taking creatine (good thing I haven't had any $$$ to afford it right now).

I think what is best is to just eat very healthy (lots of fresh fruits and veggies), eat lots of fish if you can afford it, avoid red meat, etc.....the body from what I know should make the muscles as strong as necessary (within human limits) as long as you eat enough and drink enough water.

Also remember, some people can get a lot stronger without getting much more size in their muscles, whereas with some other people, their muscles will get a lot larger as they grow stronger. So if you're one who can't gain size easily, just keep gaining strength, and you'll get larger eventually.