Muay Thai Weightlifting Routine. Comments appreciated.

[gabbah]

Hmm ok... well we all want to be optimal don't we?
My goal is actually to put on more muscle mass. So I guess that I should be doing 10-12 reps then.
What do you mean by "limit strength"?

[Maxx]

I'll look for some of the research that I've been reading through and see if I can find you some specific articles. Most of the stuff that I've read recently and most of the guidelines that I follow as a personal trainer and specialist in sports conditioning recommend the 10-12 rep range for hypertropy though. Don't get me wrong... you'll still gain mass training with the rep range that you are using, but you aren't optimizing your mass gains at that range. It's more for developing limit strength.

[gabbah]

Thanks a lot for the input Maxx.
About the number of reps... I'm more used to 6-8 reps for building maximum mass. I think I got it from the MAX-OT method from AST sports science.
That method is for body builders who want to gain maximum muscle weight as fast as possible but not putting on fat.
Currently that's the number of reps I go for (at which point the muscle fails a positive rep).
Do you have more info on that 10-12 reps theory?

[Maxx]

Haven't checked out this thread in a while. I work with athletes a lot, especially combative athletes. Here are a few suggestions and training methods that I've found successful.

Recent research points to a rep range of 8-12 reps per set as being optimal to stimulate muscle growth or hypertrophy. Use a weight which will just barely allow you to reach a number of reps somewhere in that area. Also as an athlete, use large, multi-joint movements such as bench presses, rowing motions, shoulder presses, lat pulldowns, vertical rows and any squating motions that you chose. Multi joint exercises have also shown to promote greater mass gains as they have a greater tendency to stimulate the release of hormones in the body that promote growth.

Minimize the use of single joint exercises such as curls, tricep motions, lateral and front raises, etc. A few sets is okay, but don't make these the primary focus of your workouts. These are isolation movements and don't really play a significant role in the development of functional strength. Also they generally don't mimic functional motions of the body like your multi joint movements do.

I'd be careful about shadowboxing with weights as well. You could easily hyperextend your elbow or your knee of you aren't paying attention. Also, if you think about it, it would be hard to use this training method to maximize your speed since you wouldn't fully explode to prevent joint damage like that mentioned above. you're much better off doing upper and lower body plyometrics such as explosively throwing a medicine ball in a way that mimics a thrown punch or doing jump squats to maximize explosive force and aceleration. Those types of exercises are probably your best bet for developing speed and they are relatively safe as well.

[gabbah]

Perhaps low rep if you want to gain weight. But that might make you slower and gas out easier. So I guess it depends on what you need at the moment. If you are happy with your current muscle mass, perhaps you just need low rep.

[Jordan3i4]

I'm still struggling to figure out what is a good weight lifting routine

for MMA. I've been training my own way for a while, but every time I read

any articles on weight lifting for MMA, they give different advice. Some people

say low reps, heavy weight; some people say high reps, light weight. I think

there must not be a "perfect" way to train for MMA, and that general functional

lifts such as the squat and deadlift will be most effective for developing core

strength. Abs are also one of the most important bodyparts, as they protect

the vital organs.

[gabbah]

Raw strength is the 1-5 rep range. In the lower half of the rep range, you will not gain much muscle size at all, just strength. Training with 5 or 6 reps, you will gain size and strength, but primarily strength. I'd say 10 reps is not endurance, it is still hypertrophy (muscle growth) amount of repititions. Anything over 10 is verging on endurance training.

I see.
Yes diet is the most important thing, I know. You should eat lots of pizza and hamburgers right? j/k

[gabbah]

I think a heavy bag and speed bag routine would be much better. I do realize you may not have access to a hb and sp.

Well I already use the heavy bag alot (at my gym), I love it.
When my gym had the speed bag up I used it for hours in a row, until they told me they couldn't take the sound of it anymore, lol. :P

I think you learn some rythm and to relax from the speed bag... but most of it doesn't translate to real sparring like the work you do on a heavy bag. So I find the heavy bag much more useful, what do you think?

Anyway, shadowboxing with weights I could do in between sets while lifting weights perhaps, I dunno...

[Hardball]

By the way maxx, what do you think about shadowboxing with weights in your hands? Is it any good for strength/speed? Do you do it?

I think a heavy bag and speed bag routine would be much better. I do realize you may not have access to a hb and sp.

[Jordan3i4]

Raw strength is the 1-5 rep range. In the lower half of the rep range, you will not gain much muscle size at all, just strength. Training with 5 or 6 reps, you will gain size and strength, but primarily strength. I'd say 10 reps is not endurance, it is still hypertrophy (muscle growth) amount of repititions. Anything over 10 is verging on endurance training. However, the real way to gain muscle size is your diet. You can train with the 6-8 rep range (best for muscle size), but you may never gain any muscle simply because of poor diet, etc. Shadowboxing with weights in hand seems like a good idea to me. I've never done it before though. I don't see how it can hurt. Muhammad Ali used to train underwater for more resistence to improve his speed. Training with weights in hand will accomplish the same thing.

I've switched my routine to a full body routine:

Performed 2 times per week:

Barbell Squat or Deadlift (Rotating each workout)
Dumbbell Incline Bench
Dumbbell Bent-Over Row
Dumbbell Shoulder Press

I vary rep ranges this way: 5x5, 3x15, 4x10, where I alternate every

workout.

I chose to change rep ranges a lot, because I want to get the best of everything. Raw strength, muscle growth, and muscular endurance.

I wonder if anyone does something similar, and whether you think it's effective.

[gabbah]

What is the differance between "raw strength" and "muscle growth"?
I train 6 reps for maximum muscle growth (or so I though?).

And as far as I know, when you get up to 10-12 reps you are already a bit on the endurance side... well at least if we're talking about gaining muscle weight?

By the way maxx, what do you think about shadowboxing with weights in your hands? Is it any good for strength/speed? Do you do it?

[Maxx]

Your programs don't look too bad... Just make sure that as an athlete you stick with basic multi-joint presses (bench press and shoulder presses both with barbells and dumbbells), pulling motions (lat pulls, horizontal rowing motions, vertical rows), and squating motions ( front squat, back squat, lunges, deadlifts, romanian dead lifts, etc.)

Keep your rep range in the following ranges: 4-6 reps for raw strength, 10-12 for muscle growth and 15-25 for toning and anaerobic strength endurance.

within 3 months of a fight start hitting your weight lifting movements such as high pulls, power cleans, clean and jerks and snatches. Use a kettle bell if possible... I got the best results from kettlebell use. Also include some plyometrics. Plyos and weight lifting techniques will develop power and make you more explosive. As a fighter strength doesn't cut it unless you can use it explosively.

[Jordan3i4]

I wish I owned a heavy bag. The closest one to me is at the MMA gym (10 minute drive). Weekends i'm usually nursing a hangover, or studying. I'm trying to take it easy on the drinking though. I probably won't have time to train on weekends, will need to spend my time studying.

[Hardball]

Do something light on the weekends. Don't take it off entirely. Maybe you could do shadow combat or study films on the weekend. Do you own a heavy bag?

[Jordan3i4]

Yeah, I do plenty of that. I train 3 days per week at a MMA gym, and two 2-hour sessions with my training partner (cousin). I'm going to struggle getting to the gym twice a week I'm sure. I might cut down to 2 days per week at MMA gym, one 2-hour session with my cousin, and 2 days at the gym. I plan to take weekends off though.