Dont wanna be bulky?

[Thai Bri]

Re: Physicist

Originally posted by RabidMAT12
I thought that since we had a physicist replying that i should add some science to this discussion. As you probably know:

Force (N) = Mass (Kg) * Acceleration (m/s/s)

Work Done (J)= Force (N) * Distance (m)

This tells us that to increase the force of your punch you need to increase your mass or acceleration or both. So in theory a martial artist who had an arm mass of 10 kg and could punch at 10 m/s/s (100N pathetic but just an example) has the same force as a boxer with arm mass 20 kg and can punch at 5 m/s/s.
Therefore muscle mass is not the only factor in deciding punching strength.
As to weight lifting muscle being put on depends on 2 things weight and distance (direction also has an effect F * d (Nm) but thats not important). Lifting a high amount of weight a few times would give you high force low distance with the low amount of weight being the opposite. So it really depends how many times you can lift the lower weight compared to the larger one (work this out by counting how many heavy weight you can lift to exhaustion and then the light weight, with rest of course, and compare the 2). This will tell you which one taxes you the most.
(This dosent really have much to do with anything it just occured to me)

What are you on about "arm mass"? I saw a similar article once prattling on about the weight of a fist......
Your technique allows you to put a proportion of your body mass in a strike. This is the mass that counts, not just the fist or the arm. This is why a 10 stone man can sometimes out punch a 15 stone man. With better speed and more use of what body mass is availabe, it can be done.

[RabidMAT12]

Good point with the Kinetic Energy and the Pressure factoring into it as well. I think that if you look at the overall picture you will see that the whole process pretty much involves force, mass and acceleration/velocity. I would think that disregarding any stuff about ki energy or mental technique that the power will be based on a combination of those factors, for pressure that isnt really about power so much as it is about pain, the force can be constant but if the area changes then the pressure will change but the power will be the same.

As to Thai Bri, i am behind you 100% about the turning to add to the power, as i stated immediatly after, the arm mass thing is just an example that i pulled out of the air it dosent really matter in this case.
Oh yeah and since im here just because a teacher charges £4 an hour dosent mean that he is running a Mc Dojo.
If at the boxing gym they have 40 students paying £1 an hour thats £40 there. While if the martial artist only has 10 students he will still get the same amount of cash. Just because he is a kickboxing genius it dosent mean that he has to eat less or that he gets his cable cheaper.
Ps dont take this as a flame, i would say that enroling in the boxing class would probably be the best to start off with, just dont confuse high fees with bad teaching.

[terry]

Originally posted by Disciple
Sorry, I did not explain myself clearly.

Okay, explanation understood.

Hyperplasia refers to an increase in the number of cells which I was taught is impossible in skeletal muscle tissue. This concept is currently being debated though in the scientific community.

The studies they're doing sound very painful. They take 1 gram size tissue samples from deep within a muscle tissue at different several times in a long-term training cycle and compare the muscle tissue. Ouch, no wonder they're having hard time getting athletes to sign up. What I saw didn't have a large enough sample size to attain statistical significance. However, ongoing study seems to be focusing on people who are doing long-term power lifting and strong man training, i.e., 10 years or more in the sport.

My advice to competing martial artists is to alternate power lifting cycles with body building or even slightly higher rep cycles. This will give you both increased strength/explosive power and greater muscular endurance(cell volumization-increased glycogen storage capacity).

So what do you think of the following advice:

1) cycling power lifting with hypertrophy work if you're intention is to gain weight, or
2) cycling power lifting with circuit training (fast aerobic weights) if you're maintaining or loosing weight?

Before competitions or matches there should be a cutting cycle in which you try to drop body fat while preserving muscle tissue. This will put you in the lowest weight class possible while maximizing your strength/power/endurance. This is tough to do, however, and requires hard lifting and even harder dieting/supplementation.

Hmmm...this sounds like conventional wisdom for a bodybuilding competition, but my gut says it's not optimal advice for a fighter. Usually you want to ease off on the supplemental training and increase hard sparring as you approach a match. And back off even on that the week of the match. When the fight comes you want to have had a chance for your energy systems to recover and be ready for maximal output. If you're trying to cut weight at the last minute it will be much harder on your system than if you approach it more gradually.

Terry

[Lizard]

"F*T=Change in MV

That is, force times time equals change mass times volume. That is your impulse equation. This takes into account how quickly you retract your punch which is something notable." Are you sure it's Volume and not Velocity. How do you change your opponent's volume?

[Disciple]

Terry you are correct.

During a cutting phase even bodybuilders stop lifting weights several days before a competition. They also do not have sparring or cardiovascular conditioning to worry about. So I guess each fighter's timeline is dependent on his own personal recovery capacity and how well he plans in advance. The reason I said hard lifting and hard supplementation is that when dieting, muscle will burn up right along with the fat if there is not a large increase in protein intake and maintainance weight training. Perhaps I should have said "short but intense" lifting.

Cycling power lifting with body building type lifting for weight gain should work fine. I myself do this for two reasons.
1. To increase my glycogen storage capacity in the skeletal muscles.

2. To periodize the workouts. All out power lifting week after week will cause overtraining and your gains will stop. You need weeks of intense lifting to shock your system into growth followed by weeks of lower intensity to prevent overtraining and adaptation.

Power lifting cycled with circuit training is fine for maintainance or weight loss. The key is that the workouts should be intense but of lower volume than during your weight gain phase. During this phase your recovery will be slower because you are dieting to lose fat. Body builders are able to keep volume high in this phase because this is where they go on a massive steroid cycle. This enhances their recovery and spares muscle tissue during fat loss. Steroids are another story entirely... unless of course someone happens to be a martial artist who uses them.

What percentage of good NHB fighters would you estimate use these anyway?

[Disciple]

There are several factors which allow a person to hit "harder"

strength, size, body mechanics and athletic ability(natural explosiveness).

Think of a Mark McGwire who is very big and strong and swings with alot of brute force versus a Ken Griffey Jr. (very athletic, good mechanics, creates alot of hip torque when he swings). Another example--Tiger Woods. He is not over muscular but is 6'2" with an athletic build and very good body mechanics.

If you want to maximize punching power.

1. Increase strength/explosiveness (lift weights)
2. Increase size (lift weights)
3. Improve body mechanics (train properly)
4. Athletic ability? (sorry, this is genetic, can't change this one)

This is one of reasons why LeBron James has so much hype right now. He is 6'8". Extremely athletic and a solid 240 lbs. Anybody see him in the slam dunk contest on ESPN, his head was above the rim. Imagine him after he puts on 20 lbs. of muscle.

[terry]

Originally posted by Disciple
What percentage of good NHB fighters would you estimate use these anyway?

Dunno. Probably a lot from the looks of it. Any sport that requires speed, strength or endurance will have some people doing it, especially at the elite levels. Testing reduces usage, but it also converts the game into a pharmacological cat and mouse game.

My brother developed some assays for steroids while he was at Syntex in the late 80s. I read some of the literature about the physical effects of steroids and wound up strongly opposed to them. To me it looks like you are trading short term gains in athletic performance for long term health--not a trade off I wish to take.

[Turing]

Bah

Bah, you knew what I meant. Velcoity Volume come on now