Spilt Rountine vs. Full Body Workout

[Kensh0]

Just wondering what your thoughts and experience are on this topic. Anyone get bigger gains with either one. Discuss.

[hashpuppet]

I've been told its sort of a how much time do you have topic and if you can work out every day then you'll get more strength out of it. If you go to the gym 3 times a week and do a full workout thats better than a split routine 3 days a week but worse then say a split routine 5 days a week.

[Kensh0]

Well I was thinking of undergoing a 6 day split routine it consists of

Mon
Chest/ Triceps

Tuesday
Back/Biceps

Wednesday
Legs

Thursday
Chest/Back

Friday
Shoulders

Sat
Legs

Regarding the excercises I'm using I am looking at a periodization method in which the exercises will change continually to keep me from reaching a platau early on.3 sets of 4-8 reps for each exercise. For Cardio I go to Muay Thai and Judo 2-3 times a week each. My goals are mainly to bulk up during the winter than for the summer do lighter weights and more cadio Polymetrics based routine to tone up and work on endurance. Think this workout will build some good muscle mass.

[hashpuppet]

If you're a serious martial artist you would never even think about muscle mass. It's about strength speed and endurance remember that.

You should definately throw in another shoulders day. Shoulders/back/chest are all equally important. Throw in shoulders on the first day since a lot of exercises do shoulders and chest at the same time anyways. Make sure to do atleast 5 sets of each muscle each workout and don't forget to warmup and cooldown especially if you want some flexibility too which can multiply your gains in everything.

[Kensh0]

Hashpupet:

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my thread. Regarding the shoulders I agree, i actually forgot to write them in for my monday. My main concern for my workout is to build some muscle mass as I am attempting to get into the law enforcement field. Than when I accomplish that work on speed and endurance.

[hashpuppet]

Muscle mass and strength are two different things, do you just wanna look big or do you want to be strong, muscle mass slows you down.

[Kensh0]

Well my goal for the next little while is to gain some muscle mass just to fill my body out. After that I plan to work on more functional types of strength training more geared towards special forces type physical training. Here is a new bodybuilding plan that I worked out.

Workout Schedule
6-8 reps except where stated
(cardio three times a week in the morning)

Monday quads/hamstrings
Squats (10/8/6/4/2)
Leg press (3 sets)
Leg extensions (3 sets)
Leg curls (3 sets)
Stiff leg dead lift (10/8/6/4/2)

Tuesday chest/abs
Bench press (8/6/4/2)
Incline dumbbell press (3 sets)
Chest dips (3 sets)
Hanging hip raise (3 sets to failure)
Crunches (3 sets to failure)

Wednesday back/forearms
Dead lift (4 sets)
Barbell row (4 sets)
Chin ups (3 sets)
Seated row (3 sets)
Behind back wrist curl (3 sets)
Reverse wrist curl

Thursday shoulders/calves
Military press (8/6/4) Seated press as alternative
Side laterals (3 sets)
Rear laterals (3 sets)
Shrugs (3 sets) Barbell or dumbbell
Standing calf raises (3 sets - 10-15 reps)
Seated calf raises (3 sets)

Friday triceps/biceps/abs
Close grip bench press (3 sets)
Skull crushers (3 sets)
Barbell curls (3 sets) l
Incline dumbbell curls (3 sets) Crunch (3 sets to failure)
Twisting crunches (3 sets to failure)

What do ya think puppet. Feel free to offer any suggestions or ideas. BTw I am 6,1 206 lbs to give you an idea of my body type.

[hashpuppet]

1-5 reps is the best for muscle mass

[decypheredbeats]

If your training MMA I would definetely not hit the wieght as much.
You sound like you can benefit alot from dual factor hypertrophy training. Alot of athletes try to assimilate Bodybuilder styles workouts (supercompensation), wich is working out single muscles every other day 6 days a week. When doing this with your skill training you will most likely not gain much mass, as to your body does not have time to grow. remember growth happens while resting. By working out that much and doing judo and kickboxing and other cardio, when does your body have time to rest?

http://www.competitivemuscle.com/showthread/t-52.html

http://www.competitivemuscle.com/showthread/t-48.html

these articles are pretty hard to understand at first, but reread they are excellent and prove DFHT would make since for someone in your position....

But even if you dont take this advice atleast keep your caloric intake high. I am your exact wieght (203) and I am 5'11" about 10% BF, I eat 400 grams of protien a day, about 100 grams of carbs and alot of fat ( I am a low carb bulker, If you can take it you will cut fat doin this, otherwise eat about 400 grams a day and low fat) , try to keep calories around 3500-4000 to keep your body constantly repairing itself and eat that in 6+ meals.

[hashpuppet]

You have to change your routine a bit, the best thing to do would be to take a one day break every 2 days of working out. Stack up your body parts a bit more I guess. I've also read its better to do the bigger muscles first in a split routine so the first day you might want to do legs and back. Your routine right now is more for strength and not growth because your muscles wont have the proper rest time to grow. If you really want to bulk up, also remember that to get big you have to eat big and then eat bigger. It's also important to know that when you do bulk up, you will get slower, so make sure you know that. On the days between workouts, a lot of people say not to do cardio but I recommend to do it because you're gonna have no endurance whatsoever if you don't do cardio regularly and your muscles will make you really slow.

[Sim]

Workout Schedule
6-8 reps except where stated
(cardio three times a week in the morning)

Monday quads/hamstrings
Squats (10/8/6/4/2)
Leg press (3 sets)
Leg extensions (3 sets)
Leg curls (3 sets)
Stiff leg dead lift (10/8/6/4/2)

Tuesday chest/abs
Bench press (8/6/4/2)
Incline dumbbell press (3 sets)
Chest dips (3 sets)
Hanging hip raise (3 sets to failure)
Crunches (3 sets to failure)

Wednesday back/forearms
Dead lift (4 sets)
Barbell row (4 sets)
Chin ups (3 sets)
Seated row (3 sets)
Behind back wrist curl (3 sets)
Reverse wrist curl

Thursday shoulders/calves
Military press (8/6/4) Seated press as alternative
Side laterals (3 sets)
Rear laterals (3 sets)
Shrugs (3 sets) Barbell or dumbbell
Standing calf raises (3 sets - 10-15 reps)
Seated calf raises (3 sets)

Friday triceps/biceps/abs
Close grip bench press (3 sets)
Skull crushers (3 sets)
Barbell curls (3 sets) l
Incline dumbbell curls (3 sets) Crunch (3 sets to failure)
Twisting crunches (3 sets to failure)

TOO MUCH VOLUME

This is totaly useless. If you can do 3-4 exercises on the same bodypart it's because you don't train hard enough. The more is not the better, intensity is the key. And you train like a bodybuilder. It will give you big muscles but no fonctionnal strenght. You should train like a powerlifter. Forget all isolations exercises, do only compounds. You should not see your body as a lot of differents bodyparts but you should see it as a whole unity.

Do a three day split based on the three basic lifts: Bench Press, Deadlift, Squat. You add some complementary exercises. Look at this routine:

Monday Pecs, triceps, shoulders
Bench Press 5X5
WeightedDips 3X5
Military Press 3X5

Wednesday Back, Biceps
Deadlift 5X5
Weighted Pull ups 3X5
Bent Over rows 3X5

Friday Legs, abdos
Squat 5X5
Stiff Legged Deadlift 3X5
Weighted sit ups 3X5

[Kensh0]

Hey Sim I would have to agree with you, I tried this workout while doing judo 3 times a week and I was totally burnt out. I was actually looking for idea for training for 3 days a week. In your opinion do you think it would be more effective to do a spilt 3 day routine like urs or 3 full body workouts a week. This workout you gave have you tried it yourself, has it worked for you, also to clarify listing 5x5 5 sets with 5 reps each ?right

[grubbogoppoly]

The reason you were burnt out wasn't number of exercises. IT was number of days. 6 day in the week? I think three or four exercises is just fine. powerlifters may have strenght, but they have NO endurance. Why do you think there are a lot of them that look fat.

[Sim]

Hey Sim I would have to agree with you, I tried this workout while doing judo 3 times a week and I was totally burnt out. I was actually looking for idea for training for 3 days a week. In your opinion do you think it would be more effective to do a spilt 3 day routine like urs or 3 full body workouts a week. This workout you gave have you tried it yourself, has it worked for you, also to clarify listing 5x5 5 sets with 5 reps each ?right

3 full body workout it really really too much. If you work a muscle really hard, it will take at least 7 days to be totaly recovered. Remember: you don't grow when you are in the gym, you recover when you rest. Working a muscle 3 times a week with certainly lead you to overtraining and you won't grow, and it is possible than you regress. On a split workout, work each muscle only once a week.
For a whole body workout, it is possible to do it twice BIG MAXIMUM a week, because you usually don't do more than one exercise per bodypart. But doing it once a week is plenty. But the most important is to put your total maximum effort on the workout. And at the end of your workout, if your life depended on one more repetition, you should not be able to do it. If you train like that, you wont think about doing it three times a week
And yes, 5x5 mean 5 sets of 5 repetitions. But the five repetitions is a objective than could normaly not do on the five set. Take a weight that is challenging for you to do the first five reps. Than on the other sets you would normally not be able to do 5 reps. It should be something like : 5 4 3 3 2. Then the next week you should be able to do more reps and when you can do 25 total reps you add weight. Go like that for 12 weeks and its incredible how much strenght you will gain.

The reason you were burnt out wasn't number of exercises. IT was number of days. 6 day in the week? I think three or four exercises is just fine. powerlifters may have strenght, but they have NO endurance. Why do you think there are a lot of them that look fat.

I got to disagree with you. The number of exercise is a big factor of overtraining, and usually, a lot of them are useless. Stick to big compounds exercises. Do 3 big exercises per workout and if you put the maximum effort, it will be plenty. The powerlifters are fat because they don't do cardio. The routine I gived you don't include cardio but you must do it on rest days. 2-3 times a week of High Intensity Interval Training (forget slow cardio) will burn all your fat, added to your martial arts training.

[Matt Reynolds]

First off, just wanted to thank you guys for looking into DFHT, and thank the many of you who have tried it out.

I wanted to let you all know that a CORE online magazine has published my article on Dual Factor Training and have asked it to be a continuing series. I think that the article will help clarify some things about DFHT that were maybe a little hard to understand the first time around.

CORE can be seen through bodybuilding.com on their home page here:

BB.com

Here are the direct links to the mag...

CORE Magazine

Here's a link the BB.com version of the mag...

BB.com CORE

I am really excited about the DFT series and hope to go into great detail so that everyone can understand the importance of Dual Factor Training Theory, and how they might be able to use it to meet your goals; be it hypertrophy or strength.

If you have questions about the article, I won’t have time to come back to every board and answer them. You can either email me or go to TotalElite and ask the questions there. I will be there every day, and will address many of the questions I get in future articles.

Now, let me setup the changes to this version of DFHT with what you’ve seen in the past…

Over the last couple years I have had lots of guys try out DFHT and make really good progress. However, it wasn't a perfect system (nothing ever is), and most of it's problems lied in two distinct areas:

1) There was too much daily volume.

-and-

2) It was too rigid and too complex, making it hard to follow and too easy to bastardize.

So I've done some work and come up with something very similar but what I believe to be a better version; with more options (less rigid) and manageable volume. (“Manageable” might not be the right word here as I know some of you guys go nuts with volume - but I believe this to be a more optimal volume for the average guy looking to put on quality muscle.

Now I will say that much of this updated version has roots in strength training, but I've also found that there is a real need for strength development among bodybuilders.

HOWEVER, this program is made for guys whose first goal is to put on mass and who's second goal is to get strong.

I will present another, slightly different program in the near future days for those whose primary goal is strength, with size being a secondary goal.

Hope you guys enjoy it!