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**grubbogoppoly** · 10-08-2003, 01:26 PM

No, you won't lose power. Think about the snapping of a towel. If you just throw the towel out there then it will not hurt. However, if you snap it back quickly it will sting. This is due to a reduced time that the force is being transferred to the other person. Forgot the term they use for it in physics. But that is the principle.

**Thai Bri** · 10-08-2003, 01:43 PM

Yes you will lose power. In order to snap a punch back you have to stop it, and then pull it back. You cannot just stop any technique without a decelleration phase. So, basically, you will be decellerating the strike on impact, instead of accelerating it.

But it feels cool and looks cool. And, in fairness, it helps keep the limb from the opponents grasp, and makes it ready more quickly for the next strike.

**Stigma** · 10-12-2003, 08:11 AM

The "snap" in a kick or punch is the first "trick" any serious martial artist will come to realize. Those moves that do not rely soley on brute force momentum (such as a pushing sideways kick) will improve tremendously from perfecting the snap.

However, Thai is correct (and wrong also). If you just deaccelerate your movement for the snap, it will look much the same, but you will loose power instead, and not gain much (if anything) in effect.

An untrained person who throws a staight forward punch will use all his muscles to propell his fist forward from the start of the motion, and until he hits the target. This is less effective (and more imortantly, much less energy efficient) than the "snap".

Try this instead: Focus ca a 50-70% of a hand-lenght behind your intended target (imagined or real), and keep your arm muscles very relaxed through the whole punch motion while you do a standard backhand or forehand straight-punch. Then, just before you hit the target (ca half a hand-lenght) you tighten all your muscles (shoulder, biceps, underarm and fist). This will naturally increase the speed and power for the last bit, and actually provide a more powerful punch then if you had been using your muscles 100% though the whole punch. You will feel a "snapping" when you hit, but this should be mostly your muscles and tendons snapping back after your arm reached its maxiumum reach. In otherwords, you should NOT use your muscles to snap back BEFORE you reach your arms full lenght (or hit your target).

The towel-comparison might or might not have merit. I have been into a lot of breaking (breaking bricks ect. not breakdance), and I personally feels it helps me gain the perfect timing if i visualize a wave that starts at my shoulder and travels down my arm, tightening each muscle as it passes it. I find that when i can time this "wave" so that it reaches my fist exacly at the moment of impact, i gain the maximum force (something which i can actually measure in the case of breaking objects). This last piece of advice might or might not help for you, but you can give it a try =)

Note, that there are several types of snap-motions. In kicks there is a movement type that is often refeered to as the "whip" or "snake-strike" where you use your foot as a whip (or a wet towel ^_^ ) and use timing to focus all the momentum from your leg muscles into a single spot (usually the underside of your foot, the hard place near your toes, where they connect to your foot. I cant remember the english word for it). I won't go into that since it wasnt spesificly asked for, and this post has become long enough

But yes, snapping-techniques IS worth looking into, but not for all combat styles, and not for all types of hits. Mainly its all about timing.

-Stigma

**Thai Bri** · 10-12-2003, 08:55 AM

Snapping arms at full length will injure the joints. And the out dated "focus" you describe was/is popular amongst the semi contact warriors of the TKD/Karate/Kung Fu world.

**Stigma** · 10-12-2003, 10:51 AM

Well yes, i don't recommend shadow-boxing the air with snapping punches. That will definately tire your joints, and cause problems if you do it regularly. Practise on a sandbag(soft), pads, or similar.

I dont know why you would call the focus i descibed "outdated", but yes, I've been into Tae'Kwon'Do for about 5 years, and i expect i learned it somewhere along the line from my instructor, who was very much into combat-effective techniques in haf and full-contact.

Explain the "outdated" part though. If there is something that im doing wrong, or if theres somethign more effective, I'm allways open for hearing new opinions and trying them out.

-Stigma

**grubbogoppoly** · 10-12-2003, 03:17 PM

"Snapping arms at full length. . ."
Of course that would hurt. Anything as dynamic as a punch will hurt the elbow joint (I assume you are talking about in the air) if you extend all the way to full length(actually what you are talking of is hyperextension.)

**Thai Bri** · 10-12-2003, 04:06 PM

This mystical "focus" is a bit of a yarn meant to convince us that we can fight semi contact, yet still have the power to kill with our deadly punches......

We focus on the surface of the opponents body....but if we focussed inside it, they would surely die. Yeah, right. All that tension dissipates power. You don't need to focus your stries at all, you need to follow through.

The tennis player does not stop the racket when he hits the ball, same with baseball, football etc etc. Boxers don't do it. The only people that do it are those who play fight, i.e. semi contact silliness.

OK, you've been into Tae Kwondo for 5 years. Your lucky. I wasted even longer focussing my "deadly" Karate power.

Get yourself off to a Thai Boxing club and learn how to actually hit people hard. And find somewhere to learn grappling. One year of this is easily worth 20 of TKD.

Fond regards!

**Stigma** · 10-12-2003, 04:51 PM

That was a bit harsh, and i won't comment on that part for fear of turning this into a flame-thread instead, but i would like to note these things:

- I did regularly fight full-contact, not semi-contact, when i was at my peak. This did not involve a lot of punching(because TKD just dosn't use many punches), but i the latter mentioned "whip" motion in the kicks was used for more than one of my knockouts-wins.

- Wether or not you use a mental focus is a moot point to argue about since everyone uses it at some level. If you werent thinking in your head where you are going to hit your opponent, you would just be doing wild aimless swings. Some people need to visualize it very strongly, and for others its just a natural part of hitting the opponent. I'd think you are the latter example because of your rather "strong" opinions on the subject. There is no mystical powers involved here, but noone ever said there was (exept perhaps your previous sensei from what you tell me...)

- The example i described was with the mindset of a break. Of course you wont have time to aim, measure and focus as clearly in a full-contact situation, but the description was meant to convey the motion used in as much detail as possible in order to be helpful. Saying "hit the opponent really hard" just wouldn't have helped much in describing what he was asking about.

- And yes, only one 1 thing will make you a good full-contact fighter: Lots of full-contact practise. However, this was never disputed by anyone here, and neither was it asked for by the original poster, so i find it a bit unessecary to go into on this thread.

This thread has gone off-topic, so i will discontinue my posting here. I hope I was atleast somewhat helpful to the original poster, and that my little advice will be taken with the good intentions wich with it was given.

**Thai Bri** · 10-13-2003, 02:08 AM

I say. How pompous.

Full contact TKD. Sounds brutal. I mean, all those hich kicks that never land. All that body armour. Frightening.

Bye!

**huey** · 10-13-2003, 04:07 AM

with snapping your kicks back you can gain power by turning your body into the kick just before you make contact. the 'ball' of the foot snaps into your opponent and then you turn your body into the kick (i am assuming this is a kick going parallel to the floor). returning your kick to its cocked position before stepping down will also make it more difficult for your opponent to grab it.

the snapping back of your punches will prevent the full power of a punch from being delivered to your opponent because you are taking the punch away. just drive through him to the other side of his head. and if you punch with your elbows out (in a straight punch fashion) from the begining of a punch you can easily hyper extend your arm. keeping it close to your side and rotating it as you move away from your body should prevent this though.

**Anfo** · 10-14-2003, 07:17 AM

Its like Jing energy , like a whip more then like a push. its alot more effective and allows ur arm to move faster.

**takezo** · 10-14-2003, 02:44 PM

good afternoon to all...

I'd like to thanx all of you who answered my question, and thanx for all the suggestions... unfortunelly i don't have a heavy bag, pads or anything like this, the only thing I have is air, and my training partners, wich I have no intention of hurting, so i've been working a lot in repetition and mental focus, and the snap, timming...

maybe in time i'll find something that I can train my impact. But thanx!
If you wish please continue posting your ideas and suggestions, it'll be much apreciated!

**Stigma** · 10-14-2003, 03:16 PM

In that case Takezo, please be careful in practising any snap punches. They can be harmful without an actual target to hit. You can use a "corkscrew" motion (classical TDK-Karate punch types) to reduce the chance of damage from hyper-extension.

The snap motion in a kick is different, and I believe that it is safe to practice without pads or a bag. I'm not a doctor tho, so don't sue me later if im wrong

**Kosh** · 10-19-2003, 04:51 PM

Its funny how alot of people trash the idea of chi (or its other martial art versions), but alot of people have sworn by it for a very very long time. I believe alot is to be said about mind over matter and just because we lack an explanation for something doesnt mean there is no explanation. 'Chi' and its different theories might simply be something we are yet to figure out - so its labeled with terms like energy and focus...

BTW chi has actually been recorded (by scientists) in some shoalin as heat moving around their bodies.

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