Am I justified in being angry?

[sheambone]

You should have hit her with a flying spinning back kick then laughed menacingly.

+1
hahahha

[Scott Bolinger]

usually if a student is going to be late or miss class, they usually call me. That to me, shows responsiblitiy and respect and I let them know that I appreciate there call.


But, putting together a leveling program. Thats a good idea. It gives the kids a goal to achieve. Charging to test, isn't something I do. They pay enough for the classes and if they test for a stripe or a belt, thats a achievemnt not a paid level. If there a green belt, then that means that they can safely fight at that level and they have that knowledge. If there a black belt, that means that they can fight as well as have that knowledge at that level. Somethnings can be flexable, but the knowledge at those levels has to be there.

[JadeDragon]

i only made eye contact with the mom once and she smiled. who knows maybe she was on the rag?

Nice. That'll win ya brownie points with the females on this forum.

[jubaji]

I felt they were basically being left in various extra curricular activities to save their parents from actually having them inconveniencing their own lives.

That is pretty specific. Did you know the families of these students well enough to make that judgment?

[jubaji]

Partly my own fault, I headed into it to teach English. Then I realized the school itself had no interest in anything other than the money they were raking in.

Where did you teach?

[Junka]

Why did that make you cynical?

Partly my own fault, I headed into it to teach English. Then I realized the school itself had no interest in anything other than the money they were raking in. Also I realized the kids were being simply overloaded by false expectations. I felt they were basically being left in various extra curricular activities to save their parents from actually having them inconveniencing their own lives. I settled for keeping order, teaching what I could but ultimately recognizing they were somewhat bewildered children, overtired and put in a classroom witha guy whose language they didn't understand.

There was no attemt to create levels, so to try to teach to the slowest in English meant boring the hell out of the more language orientated ones. In the end I taught only adults for corporations.

[jubaji]

If I seem somewhat cynical it's because of experiences teaching English in Asia.

Why did that make you cynical?

[Junka]

Then you would be right at home running a typical McDojo, if that is your attitude towards martial arts training.

I wouldn't actually i don't really see the point in training kids at all in MA and I think most dojo's do do it for the money. If I seem somewhat cynical it's because of experiences teaching English in Asia.

I'm not saying you are like that I wouldn't make assumptions like that about someone I don't know.

Frankly, I question your attitude, Junka. Maybe you should be a PC, Knee jerk liberal, but leave the martial arts training to the experts. XF was exactly right.

Talking of assumptions you must be the first person who's called me a liberal lol. No offense but, you don't know me so leave out the personal remarks.

I once ran a restaraunt, and there was this asshole sitting there with his spoiled brat kid (who was a boy about 8 years old). The boy was screaming and throwing a tantrum like a little girl, and the dad was sitting there ignoring it, doing an object lesson. This went on for almost 15 minutes!

Your preaching to the converted. I just didn't find the OPs example a good one. I believe there should be more discipline, kids brought up to use 'Sir' and 'Ma'am' and for there to be consequences for bad behavior. If that had been my kid I'd have dealt with him.

[Junka]

Life skills

I have to take the mom's side here and if it was my kids (not that I have any) I'd have been angry too.

If I walk in to my companies office and I'm late due to unforeseen circumstances then I'll say 'sorry i'm late'. This is as far as I know common courtesy . If my boss glared and said something abrupt, it'd either be met by mild nonchalance or blood and feathers time at the farm.

Basically, you could have been legitimately angry because they didn't show a simple common courtesy followed by your appropriate honorific, but instead it sounds like you behaved no better, snapping angrily. Does this serve to teach them discipline, or simply that it's ok to bully those of lower rank than themselves?

As to the business side, well teaching kids extra curricular activities is about them having something fun to do after school. The more they enjoy it, the bigger the class sizes and the more money for the institute.

[Birmingham]

anger is a sin... i wouldn't justify it in any scenario

[Tant01]

Indeed! And thanks kindly for your contribution! (Welcome aboard!)

While I do not have issues with students or parents like this I'd like to say what a great experience it can be as a parent of a student.

I am fortunate to know a highly qualified instructor in our little community. Of course I wanted my son to learn some good sound fundamentals from the man. I think parents should be gratefull to indulge in the recreational and educational benefits kids get from a given discipline.

The "Master" of his school should be shown his due respect.

If you were giving piano lessons it should be no different. Maestro...

I admire your patience and diplomacy.

[Marcosslp]

Old Thread - New Post

This is a consistent problem these days.

By way of introduction, I have been instructing the art of Aikido during the las 30 years or so. Formally, for the last 20. I'm 58 years old and my training was "old school". My first teacher made me start out in the children's class and do everything the kids did.

My second teacher in Japan did the same. He said, "If you don't want to teach children too, don't waste my time". That is his take on it. Me, I'm more ambivalent on the topic.

I've taught Aikido (formally) in Japan, the US, Mexico and in a Caribean Country that must remain nameless.

In my school here in Central Mexico, we have kids' classes 5 days a week but my son (24) does them. I will do them again in the future but that is the current division of labor.

I, however, am in charge of my own classes and the business in general. So, I have to interface with all of the students.

Our biggest problem is the parents (most often the mothers). I had a case of a mother who demanded to know why I had promoted another child (her's was also promoted). I sat down with her and tried to explain that (1) all promotions are MY decision (and I was tactful) and, (2) I attempted to explain our criteria for promotions that is, that there are many subjective issues related to the testing that she might not be aware of and, (3) it was not her child so any conversation would be between me and the child's parents.

She was rude to begin with but I was not sucked into responding in the same tone. However, she got really angry and said, "well, I guess that you don't really care about my opinion on the matter!"

As I mentioned, I'm a little older so I said, "Not really". Expecting her to ask for more clarification. Didn't happen. She has not spoken to me since and obviously ingnores me when I am in the dojo. Fine with me. She pays on time and never brings her son in late. Oh, there was another mother who was there with the same attitude.

I believe that every student is valuable. He son loves the classes and so do the son and daughter of the other woman. And, not having her speak to me is just fine. She (and the other mother) just love my son. So, I leave it alone.

However, if she were to cause me any further problems, I would not hesitate to dismiss her from the school. It is important to bear in mind that we are in the martial arts out of love for what we do. If a customer takes away from your enjoyment of what you do, it may be better to fire them than to just "take it".

BTW, the fact that a person pays on time is not a reason to accept bad treatment from that person. After all, paying on time and being on time to the classes is the LEAST of what they should do.

Regarding my locale. This is a fairly up-scale city with about a million inhabitants in the general area. Our students are primarily middle to upper-class. The rest are body-guards and private police.

The main problem is that parents are over-protective of their children (if that is possible). They are accustomed to being served. Big shock when some find out that WE run the classes, not the other way around.

I know how parents are in the US. But here, it is also a problem. Striking a balance between being a traditional MA teacher and a good businessman is difficult. But, you know, it is a good life.

My conclusion? Always be polite and professional but don't sacrifice your principles or training. Don't compromise. Enjoy what you do.

Marcos

[thekuntawman]

dont feel bad, the mom sounds like the kinda parets you dont want to deal with anyway. what you think is going to happen if mikey gets a bruise or bloody nose in class? she's a headache. i feel sorry for her kids, because they are not going to learn consecuences. the kind of parents who argue to the school teacher that there kid should of got and A instead of a C. respect? if she doesnt have respect, the kids not going to have it either.

[fightstuff]

Hi There,

I thought I would just contribute to this thread, as I understand where you are coming from with the displine and respect. I have been teaching for about 14 years. I am from what you call the "old school". If you were late then you would be doing push ups regardless to who you are, if you did something wrong you would get hit, etc, etc. This is how my Master and Instructor taught me and it never did me any harm.

However times change and the way people teach martial arts needs to change as well. You cannot teach people how your grand master used to teach. I am not saying that all the older generation instructors were super strict and disciplined. However a fair few of them would shout and hit you if you did something wrong.

This was really brought home to me when I went to back to our main headquarters to teach. I was using the old style to teach and we were losing students and people were complaining. Then one day my master pulled me to one side and told me I can't teach like we did in the old days. The simple fact is that the majority of people's attitudes have changed towards what is right and wrong. Most people will come to the gym to keep fit and self defence. Getting the balance between firm but fair is difficult.

Lateness is one of my pet hates and we combated most of the issues we faced with a simple rule sheet. This way everyone knows where they stand. When I used to teach if the person was late I wouldn't even need to say anything. They would do their push ups even before joining the class.

However I will say this to you. If you treat teaching as a business. The kids are the future and where the real money is, so sometimes you will have to change how to discipline them, because you are not only teaching for them but also the spectators (the parents). The best way I found is to have a good communication between yourself and your students. I would always finish teaching about 5 minutes early, so that I could sit down with the student and talk to them about history, techniques, terminology. If I had a real problem with one of them I would take them to one side rather than doing it front of the whole class.

[eXcessiveForce]

In our school rules I should point out, that students are told they are to follow instructions without question or comment.

All students arriving late are told to do pushups. We do not tell them why, they know why and it goes with out question.

We even teach them that even if the instructor is giving them pushups that they did not deserve that they are to do them without questions, and then they may ask in private why they felt they should not have received them.

Sometimes I give high ranks pushups for doing things right they know they are right and they know I know their right, but the are setting the example.

I also sometimes pushing high ranks for low ranks mistakes, again so that they can set the example.