The reliability of O.C. spray

[Ms. J]

Reliablty of OC Sprays

Bob handegan Wrote:
Our body's and our minds have felt it so many times it is no longer a shock to our system and it allows us to endure more.
If this is the case When using O/C and you see it is not bringing the attacker down you should disengage and seek an alternate use of COntrol.
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Bob, part of what you discuss here is what i was intending to post about, the information is part of the outline for a program we teach in our level one SDA course. There are a number of reasons I have not posted this information, partly because its large and I have not had the time to go though the book format and clean it up to post. Secondly, because it includes stats and information that others here on defend net might not want to read about.

After saying all that, I agree fully with you about the training of and the building up of endurance to the spray from working with it. However, for the average person i try to instill in then that they will be facing someone that in most cases will be filled possibly with anger, adrenaline, rage, drugs and-or alcohol in the system. ( all of which can change the effect of the spray on the attacker)

Most civilians have a fallacy and believe that what they see the police use and its effectiveness on others will be the same if they go and purchase an on the market product. (Based on some of the test studies that were performed on for sale street strength OC and pepper sprays can be may times weaker then Police Carry Sprays)

For civilians, we have some issues out there about the actual effectiveness of the over the counter sprays when facing a real confrontation. I like you, even my personal experiences with the sprays (on the market and Police strength) have proven them less effective then they were advertised originally by the manufactures.

To the point that a number of years back the MACE company had to come out with a clear statement that they inappropriately marketed the product promising much better results then what the product might actually provide based on the instances of usage by civilians. Its clear they miss represented the product effectiveness against a person in a realty-based confrontation.

Sometimes these on the market products just dont stop the attacker from coming at you and getting to you before they are stopped and you can get away. On a real level, i once spayed a full can of on the market pepper spray in the face of a fully drugged out and inraged crack addict He had the full can sprayed directly in his eyes and face and he still managed to leap over 2 tables and chairs to get to me and back me into a corner of a closed room, where i ended up stopping him by using the empty can as an impact weapon to the face and throat, yes granted the can stopped him..... woo woo finally

But without the training to back the product incase it fails and having full understanding behind the realty’s most civilians think its about going to the store getting a can and then standing there and waiting to be attacked to spay it in the face of someone and have them instantly stop. As mentioned above, mostly this fallacy is because of poor marketing practices by manufactures to sell products.

Note: police products compared to on the market products for civilians are very different in strength and at times the flow amount of spray can differ greatly giving police products a much wider range and saturation of the product on an attacker.


Johnaleen……


Ms. Johnaleen Castro
CEO FATE

https://www.FATE-Organization.com

[Burton]

Thanks for the input Bob. Aloha!

[bobhandegan]

makeing O/C more effective

Many of you have stated that you have seen people sprayed with a WHOLE can of O/C and it had no effect on them.
REMEMBER this "LESS IS MORE".
It is the Pepper in O/C that causes the effects you desire and it must be DRY! The more you spray and the closer you are when you spray the less effect it will have on the attacker. That is why the distance recommended is 4 to 6 feet and you are told to use SHORT 1 SECOND bursts. It allows the O/C to dry in the air and settle as it makes contact with the attacker.
Think of it as a stepping side kick. If don't chamber your knee, drive thru the target turn your hip over and land it on a major target, is it the kick that failed or the person using it? The same applies for O/C.......Thanks Bob Handegan O/C instructor/Defensive tactics

[Ms. J]

how fast someone can cross a distance

Bob before I make my post understand I agree with you, about training. and yes there are many success stories from people that have used sprays, I am by no means saying they don’t work sometimes. However sometimes they don’t, regardless of how well your trained.

Furthermore, am not part of the group that does not have training nor sprayed incorrectly, the fact is that I started spraying at 6 feet, and, it took less then 2 or 3 seconds for my attacker to get to me from the 10 foot distance he strated at, backing me in the corner of a very crowded and confined room, with the only exit behind him. (I was also temporally but seriously physically handicapped at the time and could not move fast, nor clime over things to get away.) based on how fast he covered the distance, I was just finishing my second interval of spray when he got to me and had his hands around my throat. And I never said it had no effect on the attacker, what I am saying is it did not stop him as the product claimed it would based on the packaging that came with it.

Under those real conditions the spray could not be used fast enough nor based on the exact directions that are taught on the usage of the spays directions for the intent of stopping an attacker. I say I sprayed a whole can mostly because the can was empty when he got to me. It was a smaller keychain size of pepper spay. ( I am on the road and don’t have my data for what brandname it was with me)

As far as creating a distance and all that good stuff I teach and learned, in this instance there was not that many options for me based on the very committed attack by the attacker, quickness of the unexpected attack, and then the location and environment of the attack.

I only mention this again to sort of highlight the fact that sometimes an attack happens a lot faster and an attacker can get to you a lot faster then you expect. regardless of ready positions and training. Its sometimes impossible to be able to use the product based on its sometimes very complicated spay time or special spray patterns (depending on the product used and its instructions for usage) Especially because of how fast an attacker can cross a distance. Futhermore, if the attacker knows the closer he gets to you the less effect the spray will have on him he will move even faster to get to you before he is stopped.

Its why I totally agree with you that you have to have other skills to back the spray if your going to bother carrying it or even try to use it for protection. ( as a civilian using on the market sprays. I am trying to clearly designate the difference between civilian and police-military because the products are different.)

I don’t normally carry spray, but the year this took place I was carrying a number of different types of on the market products because we were testing products to highlight as part of our up coming program. Since that time, I still don’t carry spays mostly because they are not always effective under extreme conditions.

We did this testing and put spray training as part of our program, mostly because a lot of woman before an attack, or that have been attacked previously, go and get sprays to protect themselves and don’t get trained on how to use the product. then they falsely count on it alone to save them without the physical training to back the spray because they believe its all they need based on marketing. So I wanted to be sure it was part of the program, and sure enough we had woman that were carrying sprays since there first attack and still had no clue how to use them, but honestly believed its all they needed.

Agreed training is the only answer to knowing how to use your weapons for defensive tactics. But honestly for me its just as important to be honest with training and understand all its possible failures as well as the possible positive usage’s.

Johnaleen..