Crossing Over: ERIC "BUTTERBEAN' ESCH

[nyckid]

Eric Esch, better known as “Butterbean,” is used to knocking people out. In his boxing career he has notched 57 total knockouts over the course of over 12 years. His current boxing record is 76-7-4, and he has another fight coming up in March. Yet, at the same time he continues his reign as “King of The Four Rounders” he is also making a name for himself in Mixed Martial Arts.

http://fightbeat.com/article_detail.php?AT=265

[Uke]

ButterBean is a toughman boxer. King of the four rounders, and a hell of a puncher, but he isn't even close to World Championship material.

However, he'd knock out 99% of NHB fighters if he could just learn some grappling and low kick defense. I'd bet that Buttterbean would bring the pain against all but the top 1% in all of MMA.

I hope he gets some serious grappling training and does well. He's already got a great headstart as his hand game is superior to anyone he'll meet in MMA.

Good luck, ButterBean.

[nyckid]

War Butterbean! Ahahaa

[Tom Yum]

ButterBean is a toughman boxer. King of the four rounders, and a hell of a puncher, but he isn't even close to World Championship material.

True.

However, he'd knock out 99% of NHB fighters if he could just learn some grappling and low kick defense. I'd bet that Buttterbean would bring the pain against all but the top 1% in all of MMA.

I'd say all but the top 10% in MMA. It'd be close between a guy like him and Tank.

Kimo, whose record is 11W-2KO-7L, would beat him.

[Uke]

True.



I'd say all but the top 10% in MMA. It'd be close between a guy like him and Tank.

Kimo, whose record is 11W-2KO-7L, would beat him.

I think I was much closer by saying 1%. I'm sure of it. Neither Tank or Kimo would win against Butterbean in a striking contest. And neither has the boxing ability Butterbean has.

10%????? Who? Outside of the 1% that I mentioned, every other guy would have to throw in low leg kicks and ground grappling to beat him. You're attempting to measure punching power as opposed to boxing ability. Tank can hit hard but his boxing ability is pathetic. Same with Kimo.

[Tom Yum]

I think I was much closer by saying 1%. I'm sure of it. Neither Tank or Kimo would win against Butterbean in a striking contest. And neither has the boxing ability Butterbean has.

I was referring more to MMA type event. Kimo would lose to Bean in a boxing event, but Tank could win if he can land. He KO'd 360-lb Matua in his UFC debut.

10%????? Who? Outside of the 1% that I mentioned, every other guy would have to throw in low leg kicks and ground grappling to beat him. You're attempting to measure punching power as opposed to boxing ability. Tank can hit hard but his boxing ability is pathetic. Same with Kimo.

I was measuring overall fightability.

Kimo has made significant progress learning BJJ and has great striking power.

[Uke]

I was referring more to MMA type event. Kimo would lose to Bean in a boxing event, but Tank could win if he can land. He KO'd 360-lb Matua in his UFC debut.



I was measuring overall fightability.

Kimo has made significant progress learning BJJ and has great striking power.

I either instance, they'd lose if Butterbean learned how to defend the shoot and takedowns.

And Tom, anyone could win if they landed clean. That's a given. And just because Matua was 360lbs didn't mean that he could fight at all. Have you seen Matua fight before or since?

The minute either fighter got in the ring with ole Butterbean they'd throw some weak jabs and low kicks and as soon as B-Bean turned up the heat they would get desperate and go for a ground grappling opportunity. If B-Bean could learn to sprawl and defend takedowns I'd bet that he'd win against most of the competition in those events.

The only thing he'd have to focus on is the shoot and takedowns. And if those guys ever tried to give a display of heart and bang with B-Bean, you'd see them doing some horizontal meditation.

[SamuraiGuy]

Problem is your saying he'd knock out everyone but 1% you have to define that 1%.

is it the top 5 fighters in each weight class?

top 10?

top 20?

While ButterBean would do very well if he had great takedown defense (he'd basically be another chuck liddell/cro cop type fighter, I dont know if he'd ever be able to get it up to that level. Chuck was a D-1 wrestler before he started, I dont think ButterBean has that much time on his hands.

Even if he dropped everything and trained takedown defense for 3 years, I still see him getting put on the ground by someone like Arona, and Arona is much lighter.

Also what are your thoughts on how he'd do in the clinch? Throwing hands I dont doubt how he'd do against most MMA people, but in the clinch it could be a different story.

[Uke]

Problem is your saying he'd knock out everyone but 1% you have to define that 1%.

is it the top 5 fighters in each weight class?

top 10?

top 20?

While ButterBean would do very well if he had great takedown defense (he'd basically be another chuck liddell/cro cop type fighter, I dont know if he'd ever be able to get it up to that level. Chuck was a D-1 wrestler before he started, I dont think ButterBean has that much time on his hands.

Even if he dropped everything and trained takedown defense for 3 years, I still see him getting put on the ground by someone like Arona, and Arona is much lighter.

Also what are your thoughts on how he'd do in the clinch? Throwing hands I dont doubt how he'd do against most MMA people, but in the clinch it could be a different story.

More like the top 10 fighters in MMA period. We're not saying we'd want him to learn subs and such, just defend against them until there's a restart. You don't need 3 years to learn the guard and how to tie up guys in it. You don't need 3 years to learn to sprawl. You don't need 3 years to learn to ground and pound. Years of training come into play when you're learning sophisticated subs, escapes, setups and developing sensitivity, but to learn how to get out of them and keep out of harms way like Crocop has I'd give him one year with top guys.

In the clinch B-Bean would have to learn how to deal with knees and throw attempts. Other than that he'd be fine. Boxers are used to combat in the clinch. They're just not used to being thrown or knee'd.

You gave a good analogy when you mentioned Crocop, SamuraiGuy. Two heavy hitters who really need better shoot/takedown and throw defense. Crocop had a better shot because he's in tremendously better shape then B-Bean. Crocop also had a much more practice dealing with low kicks.

[SamuraiGuy]

I realize you wouldnt be teaching him sub defense etc... (obviously you'd have to show him some, I mean if you've never seen an armbar before.. although he's probably got that anyway).

I'm not talking about fancy sweeps from the butterfly gaurd, I'm talking about the sprawl and everything that comes after the sprawl.

I think it was Mark Kerr who said that the takedown comes after you have already hit the double, when you break down the defense they give you. I.e, what to do when they over hook you, under hook you.. etc...

While you wouldnt be showing him extensive ground work, he'd have to be very knowledgeable about this.

Even then it wouldnt just be the sprawl he'd have to work on, the whole upper body wrestling/clinch game and all the problems judo presents would have to be taken into account too.

While you could teach ButterBean a decent sprawl, and what needs to come after it in a year, there is still one other major problem that remains. The MMA fighters (especially wrestling based or grappling based ones) have more than a year of breaking down these defenses. And thats the problem.

If I go to BJJ and play gaurd for a year, sure I could have a good workable gaurd, but that doesnt mean the guy who's been passing gaurds for 5 years is gonna have any trouble with it.

Even with great takedown defense you'd also have one problem, god forbid Big Nogueira runs in there and pulls gaurd hahahaha...

[Uke]

I'm not saying that B-Bean would be a good grappler. I'm not even implying that. I am saying that if he were able to get to even the level of Crocop's grappling and shoot defense he'd be fine. And Crocop isn't by any means a grappler. He's a striker first and foremost.

If B-Bean could just hold off attempts to bring him down ling enough to land even some body punches you'd see exactly what I'm speaking about. You haven't seen elite boxing skills in NHB/MMA. B-Bean isn't elite, but he's a lot closer than anything you've seen in MMA.

What's so sad is that so many people think that Fedor is a decent boxer. In a boxing match, Fedor would be knocked out against B-Bean. The only chance Fedor would have against B-Bean would be to low kick and take him down. He wouldn't stand toe-to-toe with Butter without getting that ass beat.

People should know that being heavy handed is not the same as having solid boxing skills.

But yes SamuraiGuy, I agree with you that B-Bean isn't going to outgrapple men who have been grappling for years even if he studies for a year. He could however get good enough to make it hard for them while he gets back to his feet. Like I said, Crocop does it all the time and he had only been studying but not focusing on grappling for a little while.

And its not just ButterBean. Any decent boxer with good power would do the same to everyone but the top 1%. All they'd have to do is practice sprawling and submission reversals, and they would be incredible.

Look at Mark Hunt. He's a powerful striker but he sure does NOT have elite boxing skills. Yet he's considered to be among the elite MMA fighters. Why you ask? Its because even though Mark Hunt's striking skills are only mediocre, mediocre skills are better than 99% of the striking skills found in MMA. You know that Hunt's boxing skills are only mediocre because we saw Yosuke Nishijima stand toe-to-toe with him and hold his own AND he gave up 60lbs!!! Yet Hunt defeated top strikers Wanderlei Silva and Mirko Filipovic.

ButterBean would have a better than average chance of being a force in MMA if he would drop some weight and learn some grapple-defense.

[SamuraiGuy]

I agree that Fedor doesnt have great boxing skills, but he was mauling Hunt on the feet in their fight.

He was also giving up a huge amount of weight 40 or 50 pounds I think.

You also might have noticed how a MMA trained hunt was thrown to the ground and mounted within about 15 seconds of the opening bell. I dont know if you watch the fights, but Fedor has no problem putting the "feared striker" mma or not, on the ground.

And while Hunt does have a victory over Mirko, it was a split decision, when Mirko couldnt use his LHK due to a foot injury. I dont know if thats very indicative of their comparable skill.

I'm not sure of this, because I cant find his fight stats for K-1, but didnt Mirko smack hunt around the ring a few times there, I might be mistaken but I think that may have happened in K-1.

You also neglected to adress the point of someone like Nogueira pulling gaurd, in MMA this is a very real possibility, and Nogueira could kill Bean from there, even if Bean tried to stand he'd probably get swept as he did so.

[Uke]

You also neglected to adress the point of someone like Nogueira pulling gaurd, in MMA this is a very real possibility, and Nogueira could kill Bean from there, even if Bean tried to stand he'd probably get swept as he did so.

There was little finesse or skill to Dan Henderson getting out of multiple submission attempts from Nogueira. It was good, old fashioned aggression and an understanding of what Nogueira was trying to do to him. B-Bean could learn those things. Less and less people are getting caught in submissions unless they're exhausted because people are learning what to look for and how to reverse it.

If Nogueira had fat-assed ButterBean in his guard, Nogueira might tap from the sheer weight alone.

[SamuraiGuy]

Hmmm, I dont know if it was just sheer agression etc... that got Dan Henderson out of Nogueira's gaurd, amazing grappling ability goes along with that too.

That was also in RINGS competition which is different from Pride, UFC, etc...

I doubt Nogueira would have trouble catching butterbean, I've seen my BJJ instructor DESTROY everything and anyone from 250-320 pounds in gi, no-gi and MMA sparring. He fights at welterweight (170) so he's even giving up weight, Nog would be closer to Bean's weight. These opponents have been anywhere up to 3 years grappling/mma experience as well, so not the complete noob who doesnt know what an armbar is etc...

[Uke]

There's no doubt that Henderson has great wrestling ability. But in that match, there wasn't much technical about how he escaped most of the sub attempts. We've all seen the match. I've seen technical escapes before and that wasn't one of them.