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Mayweather VS Pacquiao

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  • Mayweather VS Pacquiao

    I've watched Pacquiao for some time now, and while he is an exciting boxer, he's definitely not elite.

    Boxing is on its last leg. Its so in need of excitement and anticipation that the thought of Mayweather/Pacquiao is more important than the fight itself. MMA power marketing has all but crippled boxing, even though the sport and business of boxing is still a cash cow ... and the elite boxers are still the highest paid athletes of any sport.

    The build up of a Mayweather/Pacquiao bout has generated a buzz that boxing hasn't had in literally years.

    Its actually brilliant.

    Manny Pacquiao ... respected Filipino congressman who overcame the odds of poverty to become one of the most recognizable sport icons from his native land ... always so humble and soft spoken ... still beating the odds by defeating bigger men.

    In contrast we have Floyd Mayweather ... loud and brash personality tailor made to play the heel ... talent that's just once in a generation ... undefeated heir to the P4P title after Roy Jones fell from grace ... so convincing in the role of the villain that he was able to market himself to professional wrestling.

    What a build up!!

    Everyone is talking about this match, and the popular consensus is that it HAS to happen!

    Truthfully though, the perception of Pacquiao's legacy is smoke and mirrors. He's exciting and he sure fun to watch. He brings a lot to his matches: A desire to fight, the ability to hurt his opponents and a instinct to finish. By all rights he is a top earner and he certainly has done well for himself rising through the ranks, but is he as great as the boxing pundits say?

    In a word: No.

    Sure Pacquiao may have all those things going for him, but under closer scrutiny his legacy just doesn't measure up.

    First, Pacquiao has been defeated before. Now IMO this really isn't a huge deal as the true greatest of all time, Sugar Ray Robinson, had plenty of losses. Being undefeated doesn't make you the best. It never has. However it does show a pattern of dominance when you have beaten anyone who would face you in the divisions you've been conquering.

    In this regard, Manny Pacquiao doesn't have that going for him. In fact, Manny has been knocked out and outboxed before. Again, this isn't a huge deal as Manny has had a nice little winning streak going on in his last 12 fights. This helps to sell the idea that he's really great when he's really not.

    Next, we have to factor in that all of Pacquiao's wins against welterweight have come against men who were coming off of big losses. Why is it that Pacquiao refused to fight anyone while they are on top? If you examine it, Manny fights welterweight who are only coming of the biggest losses of their career.

    DLH - lost to Mayweather
    Hatton - knocked out by Mayweather
    Cotto - knocked out by Margarito
    Clottey - beaten by Cotto in controversial style

    The point is, when is Manny going to fight someone who he thinks can beat him? Its not enough to win against guys who you know can be beaten, have been beaten with their weaknesses being exposed in the losses. That's not beating the best. That means that at the time when Pacquiao fights these guys, none of them have been top 5 boxers in that division! Yet he is being hailed as #1 by many in that division, which is C-R-A-Z-Y!!!

    Then, as if that weren't enough to put a blemish on Pacquiao's legacy, one has to factor in that nearly all the men Pacquiao has fought at welterweight had to meet him at catchweights ... meaning a weight other than the weight the welterweight were accustomed to fighting at. For instance, Oscar DelaHoya was comfortable fighting at 154lbs, but Team Pacquiao stipulated that DLH sweat down to 145lbs to face Pacquiao! What kind of craziness is that??? And that's just one of many examples of this happening. Pacquiao got full credit for beating DLH at 145 when people actually took credit away from Floyd for going up to 154 to fight DLH! That's not only crazy but its backwards, biased thinking. That said, it is happening with more frequency these days. Like Pacquiao gets more credit for KO'ing Hatton than Mayweather did even though Mayweather did it when Hatton was undefeated!

    Smoke and mirrors, ladies and gents.

    Lastly, Pacquiao has refused to undergo random USADA styled testing. Twice.

    This alone has raised questions about Manny Pacquiao while simultaneously damaging his credibility and legacy. Before the Mayweather/Mosley fight, Manny had a shot at stating "No one else is doing it". Now that the fight has happened, Pacquiao doesn't have a leg to stand on. Sure, Pacquiao fans give him a pass on the tests by citing that fact that its not the State Athletic Commission that are asking for these tests. Its Mayweather demanding them. And to some that may seem a bit cocky and self indulgent on Mayweather's part. Well let me tell you that its not.

    At the negotiating table for Mayweather/Pacquiao(the first time), Team Pacquiao demanded to be able to determine:

    The ring size - Mayweather conceded.

    The glove size - Mayweather conceded.

    And they also demanded that for every pound over 147 that Floyd came in he would be fined $10,000,000. - And Mayweather conceded to that as well.

    What Floyd asked for was random drug testing up until the day of the fight. But that was unacceptable to Team Pacquiao. In their eyes they wondered:

    "Who the hell does this man, who I just demanded pay $10,000,000 for every pound over 147 he comes in at, think he is???"

    Team Pacquiao flirted with the idea of a a month cutoff date at first. Team Mayweather wouldn't hear of it. So Team Pacquiao tried to haggle down to a 14 day cutoff. Still no dice with Team Mayweather. So the negotiations fell apart, and Pacquiao wound up fighting in a stinker against Joshua Clottey. While Mayweather fought what will probably be Fight of The Year against Shane Mosley.

    Now that both camps were supposedly back in negotiations, the heated topic of cutoff dates has shown its ugly head again. Some fans and writers blame Mayweather. Some blame Pacquiao. I blame the latter ... simply because random testing should not deter Pacquiao from fighting for $30,000,000+. Being from New York I gotta tell you that Pacquiao's camp and legacy have suspiciously began to smell like South Street Seaport. For those of you who have been you know that means FISHY like a son of a bitch.

    Arum has done a brilliant job of keeping the illusion that these two hate each other so that in case they meet each other in the future people will remember the energy coming off of this mega promotional stunt. This will be a record breaker. And like always, Arum protects his own pockets by having Pacquiao fight one of his own stablemates in Antonio Margarito. Arum promotes Margarito and Pacquiao. So no matter who wins Arum will always win. He's already pulled this kind of stunt with Cotto and Clottey ... both of whom he represents and both have lost to Pacquiao after being defeated nearly immediately prior to their fights with Pacquiao.

    Can anyone say CONFLICT OF INTERESTS????

    So to close, Pacquiao has fought welterweights who sweat down to fight him at catchweights after having lost their last big chance at a top spot. His promotional team is first rate because they have sold the public a used car with a new paint job, because all Manny Pacquiao has done is beat guys right after they've gotten beaten by other boxers.

    Now, out of desperation, Pacquiao is fighting yet another fighter who was recently knocked out in his last big fight, and for his troubles he was banned from fighting in the USA to boot. He got caught cheating with illegal hand casts, but that won't stop Arum from promoting this fight in Mexico or the Middle East!

    So again, the promotion is brilliant ... and never has there been a time when boxing needed it more. MMA is kicking boxing's ass despite boxing being the sport with a higher level craft. Boxing needs to get all the publicity it can get badly. Pacquiao doesn't sell as many tickets or PPVs as Mayweather ... and he certainly doesn't earn as much as Mayweather(Floyd earned more in his last 2 fights than Manny has in his entire career), but this kind of drama is what makes sports great.

    I guess Floyd learned alot during his time at the WWE. He's created a buzz that NO ONE can deny and everyone wants to see. That's great but the genius part comes into play when you realize that the more the fight is stalled and postponed, the greater the anticipation and demand for it grows. The fighters will each be earning in excess of $30,000,000.

    That's amazing.

    Floyd is still the P4P king as he's never been dethroned, and he's undefeated as well as coming off defeating Shane Mosley who Team Pacquiao wouldn't even consider as an opponent after he destroyed Margarito. That fight means more to boxing than any Pacquiao fight because Mosley was actually on top when Floyd fought him! Mosley had destroyed a man who said to be the most avoided boxer in the division ... only to be dominated by Floyd aside from 2 minutes in the entire fight!

    That's what it takes to be P4P#1, people.

    You have to beat the best to be considered the best and its always been that way.

    Pacquiao, while fun to watch, hasn't ever beaten a top 5 welterweight, let alone #1 or #2 welterweight. Understand that the men he's defeated may have once upon a time been ranked in the top 5, but not at the time when Pacquiao faced them. What Freddie Roach had in mind was to get name recognition on Pacquiao's record.

    If anyone remembers listening to Roach's reasons for pitting Pacquiao against DLH, they'd tell you that it was because Roach said that he saw flaws in Oscar after having trained him to fight Mayweather. Yet they still stipulated that Oscar dehydrate down to 145lbs in order for Manny to "capitalize" on those flaws.

    Well hell ... I'm sure if Roach and his crew could get super middleweight Andre Ward to starve down to 145lbs Pacquiao could beat him too! Pacquiao could beat a heavyweight if they would be willing to meet him at a catchweight around 145lbs! He'd be a legend everywhere. The greatest even!

    Smoke and mirrors, people. Smoke and mirrors.

    Let's just be glad that we have the hype to keep us imagining.

    And one day ... who knows?

    We might just see those two get it on!

  • #2
    Didn't Mayweather disregard his contractural obligation to come in at 144 for his fight with Marquez and pay $600,000 to have a two pound advantage? If Mayweather has a bad habit of paying out of a considerable purse to fight heavier than agreed, I can understand wanting to make a huge penalty as an incentive to make him come in at the agreed on weight.


    • #3
      Originally posted by Britt View Post
      Didn't Mayweather disregard his contractural obligation to come in at 144 for his fight with Marquez and pay $600,000 to have a two pound advantage? If Mayweather has a bad habit of paying out of a considerable purse to fight heavier than agreed, I can understand wanting to make a huge penalty as an incentive to make him come in at the agreed on weight.
      He didn't disregard the obligation. He simply couldn't make the catchweight after competing for and winning the jr middleweight title.

      But here's the difference:

      Mayweather couldn't make the catchweight because he has put on so much muscle and weight that getting down to basically superlightweight is extremely difficult.

      Pacquiao stipulates that OTHER fighters dehydrate down to catchweights to weaken them and therefore gives Pacquiao a better chance at winning.

      Asking for $10 million for every pound over 147 was an insurance policy, regardless as to how ridiculous the number. But Mayweather agreed.

      Pacquiao has still refused the random testing up till the day of the fight. Pacquiao has only agreed to the former demand of a 14 day cutoff which was no longer on the table. Bob Arum tried to get slick by stating that they would now agree to former stipulation while ignoring the newer, updated demand. Arum even went as far as to give Mayweather a deadline.

      Its smoke and mirrors.

      I like Pacquiao. He fun to watch. But he's a paper tiger in that he only takes on challenges that have been conquered already.

      There is no greatness in Pacquiao fighting DLH after Mayweather beat him.

      There is no greatness in Pacquiao fighting Hatton after Mayweather knocked him out.

      There is no greatness in Pacquiao fighting Cotto after Margarito beat him bloody.

      There is no greatness in Pacquiao fighting Clottey when Clottey has lost every major fight in his career including his last fight.

      This is not to say that the little guy doesn't deliver the goods. He's a busy bee. But to compare him to the greatest boxer of this generation is ridiculous. The American media has a long history of doing such things. The sport of boxing has a long shady past of doing this very thing. No matter how dominant, skilled or tough certain fighters are, they are constantly scrutinized by the media.

      But that's another topic entirely.


      • #4
        A thread to downplay Pacquiao's greatness, its okay man, you're entitled to your opinion, even though its rubbish. lol

        Meanwhile, Mayweather makes headlines, on the Police Blotter.


        • #5
          Originally posted by GQchris View Post
          Meanwhile, Mayweather makes headlines, on the Police Blotter.
          Nothing new for professional athletes.


          • #6
            Originally posted by kingoftheforest View Post
            Nothing new for professional athletes.
            Of course not, but that isn't to say that all Pro Athletes get in trouble with the law like not paying his taxes, and now being restrained from seeing his own kids.


            • #7
              Pacquiao has still refused the random testing up till the day of the fight. Pacquiao has only agreed to the former demand of a 14 day cutoff which was no longer on the table.


              • #8
                The problem with Mayweather is that the guy keeps on giving lame excuses and unfair accusations with no concrete evidence just to dock fighting Pacquiao. It is a simple logic, he won't fight the guy. Its very unacceptable but very logical. Its better to be called coward for a moment than to have a single lost that he keeps on bragging. The problem is he is saying that the boxing commission doesn't do its work to make sure that their boxers are playing square and fair while discrediting Pacman's hard work to fame.
                Last edited by amitaf; 04-24-2011, 07:43 PM. Reason: wrong spelling... :)


                • #9
                  Since the original post, Pacquiao has defeated Margarito and Mosley. Margarito and Mosley are two completely different styles of fighters - both whom claimed to have advantages over Pacquiao; Margarito believed he was going to be able to walk straight in and brawl toe to toe with Pacquiao, Mosley believed he was going to wait for Pacquiao to committ then counter on the way in. Pacquiao outworked both fighters, nearly knocking out Margarito near the last rounds of their fight. Pacquiao gave Mosley his third knockdown in his 20-some years of professional fight experience.

                  Pacquiao has been busy walking the walk. If his game is smoke and mirrors, Mayweather should be able to walk on in and get an easy victory over the smaller Pacquiao. There's no doubt that Mayweather was and may still the best pound for pound fighter, but we'll never know until he accepts a fight with Pacquiao.


                  • #10
                    I can understand wanting to make a huge penalty as an incentive to make him come in at the agreed on weight.