Why is Kung Fu not considered to be truly effective in actual combat?

[jubaji]

And I bet I can still fight, even old kung fu style -- forget the ring -- raise the platform or put up the stumps. My punching bag is wood and concret -- this is old style kung fu -- eye jabing, biting, kicking in the nuts,...

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[Tom Yum]

My punching bag is wood and concret -- this is old style kung fu -- eye jabing, biting, kicking in the nuts,...

Wood, ok. Some people harden the knuckles this way. Solid concrete, no way.

Unless its concrete gravel mixed with something lighter inside a thick canvas material used as a punching bag. That's probably the hardest thing you could strike without seriously damaging yourself.

Nothing wrong with eye jabs, nut kicks and biting. Those are really good self defense techniques and will probably give you the upperhand most of the time, except against better fighters or guys high on crack or something more potent.

[Lthunder]

And which way do you train?

I train using the four pillars of Hung Gar (four core forms that make up the system) being mindful of the uses and applications of the techniques, angles, strengths and weaknesses. Then I drill strikes, bridges, and Chin Na applications with my friend. Then we go into full Sparring.

We train as we fight.

[jubaji]

We train as we fight.

How often do you fight?

[dacosta]

Wood, ok. Some people harden the knuckles this way. Solid concrete, no way. ... That's probably the hardest thing you could strike without seriously damaging yourself. ... except against better fighters or guys high on crack or something more potent.

1. I don't train this way to harden my knuckles. I do it now because it helps my internal training (I have a somewhat flexible surface and an in-flexible surface) and acidently, it has become comfortable striking them. In the beginning I used them for training "touch power".

2. I have actually done more damage to my self by hitting a 100 kg heavey bag without properly warming-up to it first. It is all a quest of how you use your tools! What they are ...

3. You said: "... except against better fighters ..." You are right (not counting acidents - my father allways told me that a well placed banna peal can cause...

4. You said: "... guys high on crack or something more potent ..." Even guys on ... can die, or be crippled. They just may not feel it, but when the body is ... the body will ...

[Lthunder]

How often do you fight?

It's a saying borrowed from the Gracies and BJJ meaning that when you train you aren't training just to move your body around. You are training to handle yourself in a fight. Almost full power to full power usage when you train, No Half speed or Half power efforts, etc...

How often do I fight? It used to be a common occurence when I was young, dumb, and full of... I grew up in a bad part of town with a lot of bad influences as friends. Now I don't fight with my body as much as I fight with my most powerful weapon: "My mind".

I think that's why you don't see a lot of CMA fighters in the MMA tourneys. Once you have a deep understanding of your system and have proven to yourself that it works, the need to prove it goes away and the need to delve deeper into an art that has hundreds of years of history and knowledge behind it.

[jubaji]

How often do I fight? It used to be a common occurence when I was young, dumb, and full of... I grew up in a bad part of town with a lot of bad influences as friends

blah, blah, blah

so the answer is you don't. ok.

[Lthunder]

blah, blah, blah

so the answer is you don't. ok.

No I don't fight any more. Have I fought? yes I have. Have I been stabbed, cut, bones broken, shot, etc...? Yes I have.

Just because I don't fight anymore doesn't mean I haven't had to defend myself out in the real world.

How often do you fight?

[jubaji]

No I don't fight any more.

That's what I thought. Then I guess you don't need to use the present tense in boasting about how you are real "hard core", "old school", "traditional training", "train like we fight", while you make generalizations about what "most Americans want", right?

[BrGlnn]

Your wrong. Kung fu was invented by soldiers for combat -- real combat -- that is why weapons are so important. The monk/religious thing came later. And yes, it really changed when guns became popular...

After all, it was one of the first mixed martial arts.

Kung Fu cannot compare to military combat training. I took up Kung Fu when I was in my teens but it was useless. My dad and uncle would come home after a drinking spree and abuse me. Not just hit me, abuse me.

Not until I took up military combat training after running away from home was I able to defend myself. Only then did the abuse stop. I'm not about to take someone's word over my own experience.

[koto_ryu]

Kung Fu cannot compare to military combat training. I took up Kung Fu when I was in my teens but it was useless. My dad and uncle would come home after a drinking spree and abuse me. Not just hit me, abuse me.

Not until I took up military combat training after running away from home was I able to defend myself. Only then did the abuse stop. I'm not about to take someone's word over my own experience.

You never know..... You might pick on the next kung fu guy and it turns out he's the next Cung Le. I'd still like to know what this military combat training is all about.

[Jeremy Lobdell]

???

Kung Fu cannot compare to military combat training.

I'm not trying to discredit you or start a pissing contest, and I'm am not a practitioner of Kung Fu, but I have to ask the question, What type of military combat training are you refering to? Military Combat Training is a much more generic term than Kung Fu is.

[dacosta]

It's a saying borrowed from the Gracies and BJJ meaning that when you train you aren't training just to move your body around. You are training to handle yourself in a fight. Almost full power to full power usage when you train, No Half speed or Half power efforts, etc...

How often do I fight? It used to be a common occurence when I was young, dumb, and full of... I grew up in a bad part of town with a lot of bad influences as friends. Now I don't fight with my body as much as I fight with my most powerful weapon: "My mind".

I think that's why you don't see a lot of CMA fighters in the MMA tourneys. Once you have a deep understanding of your system and have proven to yourself that it works, the need to prove it goes away and the need to delve deeper into an art that has hundreds of years of history and knowledge behind it.

HERE HERE, Well said!!!

[dacosta]

Dacosta you and sanjiyan99 are partially correct ot the origin of Kung fu. Shaoling Kung Fu was developed by Da Mo in response to the lack of physical constitution the monks at the Shoalin Abbey possessed. But there has been some form of martial training since the dawn of man.

Kung Fu has never lost it's focus. Trained properly with a good Sifu Chinese Kung Fu is as deadly as any other art if not more. The focus has been lost by those student's who don't train the Martial and only train the Art. The main problem is that most American's want everything handed to them on a plate. They want "wicked " techniques and flashy kicks, and not the whole system which is how Kung fu teaches.

What Da Mo taught was a group of yoga exercies (Bone marrow washing is one of them). He never had one monk facing another and them hitting each other with punches and kicks ... etc. This would have violated early Buddhist thought.

You are right about the rest (we gave up the martial, and don't really teach it to our students). So the gaint (Dragon) sleeps.

[jubaji]

I think that's why you don't see a lot of CMA fighters in the MMA tourneys. Once you have a deep understanding of your system and have proven to yourself that it works, the need to prove it goes away

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