Why is Kung Fu not considered to be truly effective in actual combat?

[Pitbullz]

thai bri: stick fighting and knife fighting/grabbing is popular here,you may want to know more about it to help you kick the hell out the thugs in ur district :-) there is a wealth of books available :-) unless you prefer to plunge a hole through their body using that piece of shiny metal in ur holster..now thats convenience...sometimes i wish 2000ad was for real...

people: well,i suppose that the schools opeing only for the purpose of getting rich is ruining the reputation of CMA. and its not helping. sure teachers need to eat too,but if money is set 1st then the art will suffer,bec there is no genuine drive to teach...then they teach a 2nd gen then a 3rd then more of them will appear..i think this is the case w taekwondo...and this is currently happening to CMA,its also happening in china as i was told by a friend who recently came from hunan LOL...school side by side in front of THE Northern school...

[sherwinc]

people: well,i suppose that the schools opeing only for the purpose of getting rich is ruining the reputation of CMA. and its not helping. sure teachers need to eat too,but if money is set 1st then the art will suffer,bec there is no genuine drive to teach...then they teach a 2nd gen then a 3rd then more of them will appear..i think this is the case w taekwondo...and this is currently happening to CMA,its also happening in china as i was told by a friend who recently came from hunan LOL...school side by side in front of THE Northern school...

Extremely Correct!!!!!!!

the difference between Commercialized KungFu Schools, Non-Commercialized KungFu Schools, and Fake KungFu Schools = leading to deterioration of KungFu as what the observers conclusion (non-kungfu martial art observers)

[Tom Yum]

Extremely Correct!!!!!!!

the difference between Commercialized KungFu Schools, Non-Commercialized KungFu Schools, and Fake KungFu Schools = leading to deterioration of KungFu as what the observers conclusion (non-kungfu martial art observers)

In otherwords its getting watered down, which is what has happened to Tae kwon do.

[Thai Bri]

And Wing Chun.

[Pitbullz]

And Wing Chun.

LOL hehehehe think of bruce lee's charsma lol many people are cashing in on it including his wife..the poor dead man

[Toudiyama[NL]]

LOL hehehehe think of bruce lee's charsma lol many people are cashing in on it including his wife..the poor dead man

Without him Wing chun wouldn't have a tenth of the practicioners it has today and most of the offshoot would probably not excist

[krys]

A really tough guy, who thinks that the 100-men kumite is no more challenging, should go to Indonesia wearing a Star-Spangled-Banner shirt walking on the street.

Is it still that bad now? I've been in Indonesia and yes it's pretty easy to get into fights in some spots.... Had my experiences in Sumatra and Bali..... I don't even speak of Kalimantan, it's an interesting place for martial arts and local culture but human life is very cheap ...

[Nothingness]

I am heading to Indonesia tonight. I hope I can get some good training with my master during the summer.

BTW, I am training NCK. It's just funny that my school is under the Indonesian Pencak Silat Federation instead of the Indonesian Wushu Federation. It's been under the organization forever (Heck, I think I still have a PERSILAT sticker on my suitcase). When Wushu first got popularized in Indonesia, my old master just shook his head and said that he would never consider joining them.

So, it means that I, in paper, am eligible to compete in a Silat competition although I will get people swearing to kill me if I am lucky enough to win the competition LoL.

Salam!

[krys]

Much better to be under the Silat banner than WuShu....
Wushu is also in Indonesia ?
Do you know of any crossbreeds of silat and cmas? Kuntaw?


Silat competitions are far away from real silat fighting (still better than Wushu). There are good takedowns, but the number of allowed attacks are severly limited... The vietnamese team actually rules in the fighting division but filipinos are not bad, at the last International competition I was (Manila 2003) the filipino team ended 3rd, just after Vietnam (1st) and Indonesia (2nd), Malaysia ended 4th if I remember well...

I will probably go to the Philippines in 10 days.... to train silat and arnis with my GM and see my fiance, will try to have a look at nck but don't think it would be serious to start it right now as I will only stay for 3 weeks...

Good training.

[konghan]

I am heading to Indonesia tonight. I hope I can get some good training with my master during the summer.

BTW, I am training NCK. It's just funny that my school is under the Indonesian Pencak Silat Federation instead of the Indonesian Wushu Federation. It's been under the organization forever (Heck, I think I still have a PERSILAT sticker on my suitcase). When Wushu first got popularized in Indonesia, my old master just shook his head and said that he would never consider joining them.

So, it means that I, in paper, am eligible to compete in a Silat competition although I will get people swearing to kill me if I am lucky enough to win the competition LoL.

Salam!

i think many original CMA look at wushu as a bastardize form of kung fu? my late master-sifu Lo king Hui of kong han has little respect for wu shu & it`s claim of legitimacy to be the reprsentative of all kung fu.

[Nothingness]

I think hybrid is a bit politically incorrect . Maybe "derived" or "evolved" is better?

I'll give you some links that came across me at this moment:

http://www.kuntaosilatdethouars.com/

http://www.bogor.indo.net.id/pgb-bangauputih/

I actually understand most of the movements from the pictures of the De Thouars Silat. I think there are many similarities with NCK.

The traditional Indonesian Silat (the good ones, many bogus ones), as I know it, is good at low attacks, taking down, and ground locking. I am not an expert at this, though. Be careful when looking at Indonesian Silat; many overly emphasize on the "spiritual" aspects (Now Thai Bri, this is way beyond your tea ceremony ).

Maybe I got used to see them, but I wasn't too surprised to see the fighting style of BJJ when they started to hype. I am not implying that I understand both Silat and BJJ nor implying that they are less sophisticated. I am just saying that I had seen before a fighthing method that emphasizes on bringing down the opponent quickly into a ground fight.

BTW, Silat in Indonesia is facing a problem as Wushu; there are too many bogus "dancers" that make people have less respect to the art.

I give you a link for a more ... hmm ... traditional Silat:

http://www.cimande.com

http://mpusa.50megs.com/Training.htm

BTW, I am not affiliated or promoting any of these arts and I choose to remain neutral; I don't want to say good or bad things about these Silat.

Best wishes!

[squidd]

i don't know if this falls under kung fu...

i don't know if this falls under kung fu (as the word is ordinarily used) but i saw a guy trained in kung fu who specializes in throwing needles. man, you can't believe this guy. i saw him twice -- in discovery channel and believe it or not. he can throw an ordinary sewing needle so hard and fast that it would punch a hole into a 1/4 inch thick glass.

now, for those like me who think that this falls under "kung fu," the prospects of a needle buried in my temple or forehead during actual combat really makes me cringe.

[sherwinc]

i don't know if this falls under kung fu (as the word is ordinarily used) but i saw a guy trained in kung fu who specializes in throwing needles. man, you can't believe this guy. i saw him twice -- in discovery channel and believe it or not. he can throw an ordinary sewing needle so hard and fast that it would punch a hole into a 1/4 inch thick glass.

now, for those like me who think that this falls under "kung fu," the prospects of a needle buried in my temple or forehead during actual combat really makes me cringe.

It is correctly under a KungFu category cause, KungFu means "Work Way" or "Ability" "Skill" ..... or "you mastered something like..... "like that needle throws"

"Guinnes Book of World Records" and "Ripleys Believe It Or Not" is a truely KungFu Achievement achieves.....

[krys]

I think hybrid is a bit politically incorrect . Maybe "derived" or "evolved" is better?

Ok I see your point, relations between chinese and Indonesian are still the same , lets say derived...

I used to study Indonesian Setia Hati Terrare silat ...
The progression in the filipino silat I study now is standup, groundfighting, weapons, then mix all 3... our groundfighting looks like cimande groundfighting and one silat offshot (muslim combat judo: "47 locks") specializes in locking and groundfighting, feels like bjj but with many strikes added....

There is also spiritual training and a kind of chi kung.... the part of it I learned feels like hard chinese chi kung... it is based on dynamic tensioning, developps strength and is good for your health...

Actually in the southern Philippines rare chinese kung fu systems that probably disapeared in China a long time ago are still alive... chinese merchants settled there and locals were able to learn their arts. It is curious to see filipino muslims practice old cmas in remote places of the southern Philippines...

Yes there are many bogus silat styles in Indonesia, like WuShu.... many good practitioners are hiding nowadays, and will deny they know the art...

[Nothingness]

Okay, I am posting this from Chiang Kai Sek Airport, Taiwan. They have wireless internet connection here .

Let's not talk about Chinese-Indonesian relations. I highly respect all Martial Artists for their arts. Plus it is funny, anyway. In all places in the world Chinese are usually having good relations with Moslems, except in Indonesia.

Krys, I am curious to know that old TCMA that you mentione before. Could you by any chance, check the name? I am guessing it will be in Hokkian (Fujian) or Canton (Guandong) dialect. I won't be checking the board anytime soon, though.