Chinese MAs in Real Life?

[Capt Insaino]

Yes, I have.

Man the life boats!!

[Dom Shakal]

[QUOTE=Bullshido]

You don't see a lot of this because Chinese martial artists as a general rule don't fight very well. QUOTE]

So, the Chinese who used CMA to defend their lives during the Ming and Qing dynasty, didn't know how to fight? Or the Shaolin monks who rescued the Prince of Qin, Li Shimin (leader of the Tang army) from captivity, using only open hand and cudgel? Or Wong Fei Hung who had to fight his life in numerous street fights against people looking to make a name for themselves?

Or Yip Man, who accepted and beat challengers of any style?

I hear what you're saying, and it makes some logical sense - but, assuming they were the same age, etc., do you think Yip Man would defeat Chuck Lidell or Tito Ortiz in a UFC match?

This is the type of event I'd love to see, and never have ... not Yip Man (of course), but a very experienced CMA practicioner facing a proficient MMA fighter.

[Bullshido]

[QUOTE=fwtaichi]You don't see a lot of this because Chinese martial artists as a general rule don't fight very well. QUOTE]

So, the Chinese who used CMA to defend their lives during the Ming and Qing dynasty, didn't know how to fight? Or the Shaolin monks who rescued the Prince of Qin, Li Shimin (leader of the Tang army) from captivity, using only open hand and cudgel? Or Wong Fei Hung who had to fight his life in numerous street fights against people looking to make a name for themselves? Or Yip Man, who accepted and beat challengers of any style?

[BoarSpear]

Duncan leung

Sifu Leung Known as the Dark Genius of wing chun taught to very serious operators for Spec war in virginia beach Va from the middle 70-early 90s before returning to China to teach in a buddhist nunnery. Duncan was preceded by a Hop Gar instructor whose name eludes me.. getting old memory aint what it was oh well..

[DVSJ]

I get your point, but........

that is what's wrong with you people. Competitions shouldn't be all about points, they should be like MMA matches or K-1 matches. The only TMA guys that I've seen strike it out in competition are Southeast Asian Martial artists, i.e. muay (thai, kmer, lethwei...etc) guys, FMA guys, etc, kyokushin guys/seidokaikan guys, and some judo and jiu jisu players of the old school. (enson, helio, etc) The only CMA's I've seen used in actual ring fights are "fast wrestling", san shou, sanda...and that's it.

and western type fighters, like boxers, savate guys, etc.

Those are my sentiments exactly...why don't you read carefully...then contimplate...then maybe you wont have to mis interpret my meaning.... "that is what's wrong with you people.Competitions shouldn't be all about points"....thats comin from you not me...who gives a flying **** about points anyways..?

[Garland]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "stayed true to the tenets of what a MA are supposed to be."However I do believe that CMA has the least tournaments of all MA which is fine by me...I don't judge an art or martial artist by points...the only point taken is will you survive a violent encounter to share another day with loved ones.

that is what's wrong with you people. Competitions shouldn't be all about points, they should be like MMA matches or K-1 matches. The only TMA guys that I've seen strike it out in competition are Southeast Asian Martial artists, i.e. muay (thai, kmer, lethwei...etc) guys, FMA guys, etc, kyokushin guys/seidokaikan guys, and some judo and jiu jisu players of the old school. (enson, helio, etc) The only CMA's I've seen used in actual ring fights are "fast wrestling", san shou, sanda...and that's it.

and western type fighters, like boxers, savate guys, etc.

[CKD]

Here is a vid of a full contact kung fu tournament. http://www.jiayo.com/videos/86_leitai.mov I have a few more on the way.

[Tameo]

Here is Wing Chun a CMA used in military... got it from some website.

"Cheung was appointed as Chief Instructor to the U.S. Seventh Fleet based in Yukosuka, Japan, during 1978 to 1980. Throughout this time, he was in charge of the intensive mental and physical development program of close quarter hand to hand combat for the marines.
From 1979 Grandmaster Cheung and many of his juniors conducted special programs for special law enforcing officers and special operation groups in the Armed Services in U.S.A. and other countries, teaching unarmed combat, restraining and disarming assailants and a fire arm retention program."

[DVSJ]

You have a good point.
Going though college and now working in Engineering, almost everyone I know is either ex-military, or currently enlisted in either the guard or the reserves. Over the years, that accounts for literally hundreds of people. Those of us that are not military seem to all have come from military families. I agree that some soldiers may prefer CMA; I just have never met one that was even offered such a chance while enlisted.




I was not aware that US soldiers were offered CMA in the past. Was this in a certain branch? I just have never met anyone from the military that took CMA's. Maybe its just coincidence. I'm not trying to say it doesnt happen, just that I've never heard or seen anyone that has taken CMA in the military.

Anyone on this board ever taken CMA in the military?
What branch, and when?

As a whole or by branch I can't say for sure but individually & in groups I've heard and read such things as soldiers having studied/taught this and/or that by so n so...you know how people like to have little Bio's of their own on websites and share their backgrounds...one that comes to mind is a Praying Mantis instructor who teaches out of Campbell,CA. by the name of Paul Eng.I've had older x military guys (one being my cousin) show me some CMA techniques that they came across when stationed in other countries...my old boss whom is an Army ranger (now on reserved) explained to me how they trained and that their techniques came from different MA,they just grasp what is practical and most effective for a quick, end all nonsense tactic to defeat an enemy...can't remember if he mentioned CMA techmiques but it's a possibility...

[HtTKar]

You know many military people who have taken martial arts except CMA..?What do you consider many?Is that enough?Is it enough to make a statistical measure.We have millions of US soldiers serving...MILLIONS!Some prefer to study Korean arts,others may prefer French,Japanese,American,FMA,etc.I'm pretty darn sure some of our soldiers prefer CMA.In the past US soldiers studied CMA (for personal use,at war in camps,etc.).It's not hard to fathom that CMA is taught to some of our military people in these present times...

You have a good point.
Going though college and now working in Engineering, almost everyone I know is either ex-military, or currently enlisted in either the guard or the reserves. Over the years, that accounts for literally hundreds of people. Those of us that are not military seem to all have come from military families. I agree that some soldiers may prefer CMA; I just have never met one that was even offered such a chance while enlisted.

In the past US soldiers studied CMA (for personal use,at war in camps,etc.).It's not hard to fathom that CMA is taught to some of our military people in these present times...

I was not aware that US soldiers were offered CMA in the past. Was this in a certain branch? I just have never met anyone from the military that took CMA's. Maybe its just coincidence. I'm not trying to say it doesnt happen, just that I've never heard or seen anyone that has taken CMA in the military.

Anyone on this board ever taken CMA in the military?
What branch, and when?

[DVSJ]

Real CMA are extremely effective.

Today’s perspective of CMA is tournament Wushu – this is a representation of the art not the true effectiveness of CMA.

Of all the different MA – Korean – Japanese – American, the CMA have, as a whole, stayed true to the tenets of what a MA are supposed to be.

Forget the UFC, point sparring, Olympic sparring or any rule base MA. Just view it on effectiveness on removing the obstacle quickly and effectively with a minimal amount of energy spent with maximum results achieve in a variety of scenarios. This is how to judge a martial art – not based on a tournament.

If you wish to compare CMA vs. KMA in a tournament, then so be it. Your sum conclusion will that stylist vs the other stylist in a control situation.

Ed Barton

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "stayed true to the tenets of what a MA are supposed to be."However I do believe that CMA has the least tournaments of all MA which is fine by me...I don't judge an art or martial artist by points...the only point taken is will you survive a violent encounter to share another day with loved ones.

[DVSJ]

Forgive my naivity. If what you say is true then why is it that they are not teaching our armed forces Chinese Martial Arts. Is there nothing more militant or martial than the military? I know many military people that have taken Korean, French, Japanese, American, or other martial arts, but have not met or known one to take a Chinese Martial Art. Why is it, if CMA have "stayed true to the tenets of what a MA are supposed to be", that CMA are not taught in real military training?

Also, how has CMA "stayed true", where all other arts have failed? What criteria are you using?

You know many military people who have taken martial arts except CMA..?What do you consider many?Is that enough?Is it enough to make a statistical measure.We have millions of US soldiers serving...MILLIONS!Some prefer to study Korean arts,others may prefer French,Japanese,American,FMA,etc.I'm pretty darn sure some of our soldiers prefer CMA.In the past US soldiers studied CMA (for personal use,at war in camps,etc.).It's not hard to fathom that CMA is taught to some of our military people in these present times...

[Dom Shakal]

From what I've read, the US military does not focus on *any* martial art as part of it's basic training because as a modern soldier, you're not supposed to be without your firearm. In other words, if you're in a combat situation and you DON'T have a firearm, something's gone really wrong. Therefore, most of the training is on mastering that firearm, etc.

I'm not certain, but I would guess that more advanced US military training (SEALs, Green Berets, Army Rangers?) might get into more unarmed combat training. Perhaps someone with that type of experience could share what they know ...

[HtTKar]

Originally posted by MADDOG
Of all the different MA – Korean – Japanese – American, the CMA have, as a whole, stayed true to the tenets of what a MA are supposed to be.

Forget the UFC, point sparring, Olympic sparring or any rule base MA. Just view it on effectiveness on removing the obstacle quickly and effectively with a minimal amount of energy spent with maximum results achieve in a variety of scenarios. This is how to judge a martial art – not based on a tournament.

Forgive my naivity. If what you say is true then why is it that they are not teaching our armed forces Chinese Martial Arts. Is there nothing more militant or martial than the military? I know many military people that have taken Korean, French, Japanese, American, or other martial arts, but have not met or known one to take a Chinese Martial Art. Why is it, if CMA have "stayed true to the tenets of what a MA are supposed to be", that CMA are not taught in real military training?

Also, how has CMA "stayed true", where all other arts have failed? What criteria are you using?

[polecat63]

polecat, can u list some things u learned from xing yi or ba gua that were useful in ur fights?

I don't study ba gua. The thing that helped the most from Xing Yi were the entering strategies and the way it attacks the centerline. Also, I've done tons of sensetivity type training. Lots of push hands and similar exercises that help with blocking and redirecting attack. Hopefully I'll never have to use it again outside of sparring.

Most clubs that I had managed and had doorman/bouncers, went for my advice and now use/hire uniform LEO. These LEOs have their squad cars not too far away which serves as a temp lock down of perps until other LEOs arrive. Rarely are incidents wih a visual LEO on detail.

Many of the clubs around here have done the same. At least the ones that have had some high profile problems in the past. Clubs that have been on the verge of losing their ABC license managed to save their businesses by hiring uniformed security. My friends are just too cheap!