chinese martial art: practical/traditional

[IBOPM]

Shame on you for making an error in your power calculation umpteenth threads ago....

Read your post.

You didn't mention the Chinese arts that are about fighting and involve sparring & grappling.

Sanshou, shuaijiao, qin na, etc.

Huh? I thought everyone knew that CMA has grappling.

[BoarSpear]

Huh? I thought everyone knew that CMA has grappling.

heh...heh ...heh ...where in the hell did you get that idea?
anyone lucky enough to learn the Cma's outside a Mcdojo might know that...but then they would probably still wont know Tai Chi is kung fu.

[danfaggella]

thanks for the imformative post, ibopm.

thing is, i beleive that forms are just tradition or dance or something, surely not practical. This is the reason i never joined a MA dojo, all the ones near me involve standing in a pose punching air for hours, that is not teaching you how to fight. I would expect to see plenty of TMA "form"/"ground up" fighters in mma if it was all that good, but it seems so NOT practical. I always wanted to learn body mechanics, technique, balance, offence, defence, strikes and grappling (mostly grappling), but i don't want to be doing the traditional dance of the martial art, it serves no purpose to me.

[IBOPM]

thanks for the imformative post, ibopm.

thing is, i beleive that forms are just tradition or dance or something, surely not practical. This is the reason i never joined a MA dojo, all the ones near me involve standing in a pose punching air for hours, that is not teaching you how to fight. I would expect to see plenty of TMA "form"/"ground up" fighters in mma if it was all that good, but it seems so NOT practical. I always wanted to learn body mechanics, technique, balance, offence, defence, strikes and grappling (mostly grappling), but i don't want to be doing the traditional dance of the martial art, it serves no purpose to me.

You're welcome, but I believe you're holding a very common misconception of forms. First of all forms are not all about direct applications. Punching the air mindlessly obviously is not how you learn to fight. Forms teach a lot of what you say you want to learn. Forms help drill and train correct body mechanics, technique, balance, distance judgement, correct footwork and positions, leverage mechanics, and probably other stuff I can't think of right now. Think of it this way, you have a set of drills you want to do. It may be to practice strength, speed, precision, or even excercise, whatever etc. It doesn't matter, you want to practice those drills. Now lets say you have a set of 20 drills that you'd like to do. Would it be easier to do them all in one easy to remember form, which encompasses many different ways of training yourself. OR do you want to just practice those drills one by one and in a different order every time, leaving drills out, and forgetting about them?

The fact is simple. Forms are not meant for direct application. Although some of it does have that.

Forms are meant for TRAINING yourself in many different aspects of utilizing your body (stuff mentioned above).

MMA people do the same things. Don't you think that they: shadow box, analyse their body mechanics, repeat movements for muscle memory, and whatever other crap I can't remember right now?

Forms make it easier, it is by no means impractical. Or else I can say doing pushups, working the bag, running around the track, and all forms of excercise is impractical. Practical does NOT have to mean physically fighting someone.

With that being said, I acknowledge them HUGE number of mcdojos out there which neglect everything i say about forms and just do them for fun.

But forms are good for you, and they are not impractical. So do them, and have fun while you do.

As for the MMA people, I've already stated that a lot of them would rather jump right into the ring or whatnot. If it works for them, thats cool. But forms and tradition is also another valid way. And it is NOT a dance. It might look cool, but thats just cause I can't help looking cool!

[aku aku]

thanks for the imformative post, ibopm.

thing is, i beleive that forms are just tradition or dance or something, surely not practical.

I wouldn't say that forms serve no purpose. I think the main value is that forms make it easier to remember a large amount of material and to pass it on to someone else. I agree that practicing forms won't teach you how to fight but they do contain information that could be useful in a fight. I have been disapointed with the training at the traditional schools I've been to but that's more the fault of the school and not the style.

[danfaggella]

good points both of you, its most likely the fault o the BS americanized "karate" dojos i've seen, rather than the martial arts themselves. i just hate seeing kids do a series of punches and kicks without having any experience in anything but thier forms.

and yeah i suppose forms have purpose, i just think that training easily with a partner witht he techniques practiced in forms seems to be more practical to me. if i do forms, which i very well may, i will do them when i need them and not emulate the practices of the americanized BD dojos i see.

i wish i got to see more karate/kf in mma, cuz i cant compare those arts wiht the popular mma arts, cuz i never see them used for real, i wish i could see some videos.

[aku aku]

and yeah i suppose forms have purpose, i just think that training easily with a partner witht he techniques practiced in forms seems to be more practical to me.

I think that's the key. It's not enough to simply learn the form, that just supplies you with the information. You have to practice the moves with a partner and learn to actually use them.

[shaolin-warrior]

even shoulin guys, they train body/mind all day, but i never see them spar, its always punching hot coals or breaking bricks. i wonder if many people dont practice these arts to keep the tradition and ceremony alive, rather than to be a practical fighter. this especially goes for shoulin animal forms

To attain a black belt in my school i not only had to know numerous forms but especially the five animal forms crane black tiger snake leopard and dragon. Here is the catch, every movement in every form has an exagerated long movement for strength conditioning and or balance, as a testing student we had to show against an attacked(another testing student) the self defense application(kempo) of the movement. Almost every traditional shaolin kungfu form is laced with at least a dozen viciously effective kempos.

[shaolin-warrior]

QUOTE] it sure doesnt seem logical that acting like a snake or a crane will get you far in a a fight)[/QUOTE]

Every time you chamber your lead leg in sparring to deflect a kick or lower you opponents guard, you use a basic crane technique. all kicks come from the center thanks to the crane.

Try this:
parry a punch with your fingers extened or pointing at your opponent then poke him in the throat with your lead hand...not effective
If you can master this one technique, you can drop the biggest attacker, courtesy of the snake

[jubaji]

Try this:
parry a punch with your fingers extened or pointing at your opponent then poke him in the throat with your lead hand...not effective
If you can master this one technique, you can drop the biggest attacker, courtesy of the snake

....................................

[shaolin-warrior]

Birthday:
July 4th
Biography:
shi
Location:
koko
Martial Art(s) Studied:
wrestlingwushutaijichuanaikidokendonihonkemponinposanshou
Occupation:

Jubaji, this is your public profile.....
wushu and taichi? why the doubt from a soft style practicioner.......?
and kempo.....all styles of kempo have snake and craine kempos?

[jubaji]

why the doubt from a soft style practicioner.......?

Why not?

[jubaji]

and kempo.....all styles of kempo?

Nihon Kempo

[shaolin-warrior]

just trying to understand why a practicioner doubts his own style?

[jubaji]

just trying to understand why a practicioner doubts his own style?

I'm a wrestler first and foremost. What I doubt are poseurs like you.