weight training and CMA

[Shard]

Those Chi practioners are comparing Strength training to body building.
There's a difference, a big one.

Body building is primarily focused on building a nice looking body, yes you do get stronger but thats not what those people aim for.
On the other hand, we have people who train strength. They don't have the most defined muscles but they can lift up weights like its nobody's business.

If you use weights just for a nice body then yes, don't bother training. But if you use weights to enhance your strength and speed then Weights are your friend, use them all you want, but use them in the right way.

[treelizard]

[QUOTE=Shard]Those Chi practioners are comparing Strength training to body building. There's a difference, a big one.

Body building is primarily focused on building a nice looking body, yes you do get stronger but thats not what those people aim for.
On the other hand, we have people who train strength. They don't have the most defined muscles but they can lift up weights like its nobody's business.
QUOTE]


One dude in particular I don't think he was talking bodybuilding, I think he was talking going to the gym and doing a couple circuits on machines.

He said that the way you life weights moves your muscles differently than you will need to use them in real life. So lifting logs, boxes, etc. is okay but weight machines are not.

Said it was like the difference between carrying fifty bucks in cash or having a credit card with a really high limit (internal chi). Doesn't look as fancy but is a lot more powerful. Course little ol' me had to ask why you can't have a credit card and some cash too. He just rolled his eyes at that point.

[Drunken Munky]

One dude in particular I don't think he was talking bodybuilding, I think he was talking going to the gym and doing a couple circuits on machines.

He said that the way you life weights moves your muscles differently than you will need to use them in real life. So lifting logs, boxes, etc. is okay but weight machines are not.

Said it was like the difference between carrying fifty bucks in cash or having a credit card with a really high limit (internal chi). Doesn't look as fancy but is a lot more powerful. Course little ol' me had to ask why you can't have a credit card and some cash too. He just rolled his eyes at that point.

For a different spin on things. Think of it like this, for an example. You go to the gym, and do some bench pressing, your whole body up to around your shoulders is supported by a bench, so only your arms and shoulders are really exercised (excluding the heart muscle etc..). Compare that to going into the the forest and pushing a huge boulder forward with your arms (assume you move it). Your body isn't supported, so you develop other muscles, than just your arms and shoulders.

Which do you think would be a more practical exercise when concerning development for martial arts?


Bear in mind, than when humans evolved, they didn't have gyms. And these muscles were built by other activities e.g. carrying firewood, climbing trees to steal bird egg etc... and are therefore better designed towards those activities.

[Tom Yum]

We have free weights at the boxing gym, and we definately use them, although they are just one small part of the way we train. My coaches seem to agree with my kung fu teacher as well; lifting has it's place, but it is not emphasized. What works best is a matter of individual needs and personal preference but I don't see how lifting (properly and according to a sensable schedule) could be harmful.

Cool. What kind of excercises do you do and what is the emphasis?

Is it mostly full-body, speed strength type work? or is it isolated body part type work?

I see both as beneficial, but I guess it depends on what you are trying to work on.

[Broadsword2004]

I always thought one should train the internal and external. There is nothing wrong with weight training, though, that is baloney. All that Tai Chi meridian stuff isn't literally scientifically-based, it is still a pseudo-science. People claim it is very good, but no one knows for sure. CMA's claim with proper chi training, one can placea bowl on one's stomach and it will stick there under pure chi ability. I would love to believe that is real, because it would be awesome to learn such a thing, but it hasn't been scientifically proven yet. It HAS, however, been proven scientifically that weight training is fantastic for the body, it stimulates the muscle fibers, burns fat, increases the immune system's abilities, etc...

At the same time, one should train the internal arts to keep the body strong and healthy. Internal meaning decent breathing work so the body can heal itself properly and maintain health. Cardio work, weight training, etc....will develop a fit body, but while fitness is a component of health, being fit and being healthy are separate. You can be fit but not healthy.

As for weights being bad because they don't simulate the movements of natural movements, that too is baloney. That is the same argument that Matt Furey types use. It is the same argument Charles Atlas used (animals don't sue weights, they use body movements, so body movements are best!) Atlas's bodyweight courses sold well for years until Weider came along and people learned that weights were a lot better.

Exercises like the bench press, barbell squat, deadlift, pullups and rowing exercises, will build up the legs and back muscles (lower and upper) which will support a very strong body.

Doing hamstring curls will build up very strong hamstrings, yet virtually no exercise in reality simulates hamstring curls. However, hard sprinting will cause the quadriceps muscles to tear the hamstrings if they are too weak, so hamstring curls will build strong hamstrings which lead to safe running.

And Chinese martial artists did use weight training; the Chinese arts have loads of exercises with the traditional stone locks of China; many of these look like shot puts and bowling balls of various sizes, some look like kettlebells, but made out of stone or cement.

Be careful though, Matt Furey (after all his harping that weights are bad for you) has now started monopolizing on the stone locks of China, and yes, he says they are far better for you then traditional weights.

[Sagacious Lu]

I think that one is an excuse for Tai Chi people (who aren’t doing the forms right) to have no muscle mass.

This is what I've always suspected

For a different spin on things. Think of it like this, for an example. You go to the gym, and do some bench pressing, your whole body up to around your shoulders is supported by a bench, so only your arms and shoulders are really exercised

Bench presses do work the arms and shoulders, but the biggest thing they do is work the pecs (chest).

Cool. What kind of excercises do you do and what is the emphasis?

Is it mostly full-body, speed strength type work? or is it isolated body part type work?

I see both as beneficial, but I guess it depends on what you are trying to work on.

I've only been there a month and a half, but so far I see a lot of squats, which are usually done with light weights or medicine balls but with an emphasis on high reps. One thing that is heavily emphasized is ab work- one of my favorites that we do is sit ups on a decline bench with a medicine ball; with each repition you throw the ball to your partner. We also have an old truck tire that we jump on while scissoring our legs to work the calf muscles- I try to spend a couple rounds on that every day. Of course, two of the biggest things are bag work and focus mits but I would assume those are staples in boxing gyms everywhere.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

I'd just like to point out that the ones claiming that weighttraining will hinder your performance in martial arts are probably the ones that have never worked out in their lives or are too lazy to hit the gym .

[Drunken Munky]

I'd just like to point out that the ones claiming that weighttraining will hinder your performance in martial arts are probably the ones that have never worked out in their lives or are too lazy to hit the gym .

I'm just curious on peoples opinions, on how you think weight training benefits your performance in martial arts.

[Tom Yum]

I've only been there a month and a half, but so far I see a lot of squats, which are usually done with light weights or medicine balls but with an emphasis on high reps. One thing that is heavily emphasized is ab work- one of my favorites that we do is sit ups on a decline bench with a medicine ball; with each repition you throw the ball to your partner. We also have an old truck tire that we jump on while scissoring our legs to work the calf muscles- I try to spend a couple rounds on that every day. Of course, two of the biggest things are bag work and focus mits but I would assume those are staples in boxing gyms everywhere.

Awesome. I love hearing others training regiments. Just thinking about the gym (whether a boxing gym or MA) makes me feel good, because everyone is there to work.

[Sagacious Lu]

Awesome. I love hearing others training regiments. Just thinking about the gym (whether a boxing gym or MA) makes me feel good, because everyone is there to work.

No doubt. In one drill we get a bunch of us shuffling around the ring as fast as we can while throwing a medicine ball around the circle. When the round is over some of the kids (10-14 or so) will flop down and lay down on the ground to catch their breath but one kid, that I'm guessing is about 13 won't have any of that... when it's time to rest he starts break dancing (he's really good at it too ) in the middle of the ring. The kid's got crazy heart, it's one of the coolest things I've ever seen