Why I don't practice kung fu anymore

[Sagacious Lu]

Bump bump bump

[pbicmhc]

All martial arts are ultimately about yourself. They are for you. Wether you think the information is useful or not is up to you. You have the final say in what you will accept, what you will believe, and what you consider crap.

But think of this first: If you are in the 1st grade just learning the basics of the alphabet and what words are, how can you perceive and judge the quality and content of Shakspeares writings?

I have had this same quandary thrust upon me in numerous ways, both as a student and as a teacher. I saw it in Aikido, and I see it everywhere today. There are students; beginners with only a few months or years training in the basics, (and by beginners I mean anyone with less than 10 hard years training under a very good teacher) who question and say that "This dont work." "This is no good." "I want it now." and so forth.

Dont get me wrong Lu, I put myself in your shoes everyday. I constantly question my art, my ability, my knowledge and my training, but I have had a long time to look at it, and I can see the value that can be derived from all the different aspects of training.
To me, its irrelevent that their are forms that seem to teach no useful purpose, or techniques that dont work or whatnot. I look at them from a different standpoint. I use my acquired knowledge and understanding of the "CORE" of the arts to change that technique into one that does work, to find a use for that useless form, to find a purpose for what is taught me, regardless of its superficial first impression of being worthless.

In this way, I weed out the real useless stuff and I expand my ability to utilize my knowledge in other ways. A form may seem useless to a boxer, but a form properly done, can provide all three sides of the fitness triangle, it can be used as a method to teach discipline in young students, it can be modified to help older people stretch and use their body, it can be blended into a different style (like aikido) just to see if I have the ability to modify my movement, to work my mind. I can find a way to use just about anything taught in the arts now.

My point is, that you may have outgrown your school. You have reached the point where you are not challenged enough. But you still have the ability to challenge yourself.
Take all the info you have learned, and figure out ways to make it work. Remove what you feel is in adequate and make it all "yours". After all this training you have been thru,
I am sure you have enough material to keep you busy a long time.

And that is what I think the arts are about. And that is why I say the arts are for you.

Hope this viewpoint helps. Sometimes you just need to get away from it to learn why you really want it.
Randy M.

(while you had a teacher thru most your time, I spent a number of years without one and subsequently only had the knowledge I had gained to work with - so I tore things about and re-learned them, practiced them different ways, with different arts, and so forth.....maybe this helped me see things differently)

[Troll Virus]

I know me. I was a Kung Fu guy (aomongst other things). I walked into a Thai Boxing club and I had a few fights.

Does that count?

Nope.

It's a simple question (repeated);

Ask any Thai Boxer. You know the ones.... the ones who win in stand up competitions against Kung Fu "masters" until, that is, the "kung fu" guy starts to train like the Thai Boxer!

Name us a Kung Fu master or so.
You being a "Kung Fu guy" after all of a years training should have no difficulty with that.

C'mon then?

[Thai Bri]

How many do you know Thai Bri?

I know me. I was a Kung Fu guy (aomongst other things). I walked into a Thai Boxing club and I had a few fights.

Does that count?

[shaolin-warrior]

Sag:
I haven't posted in a long while because most threads don't stay on point. I hope you find a school that meets your needs because i agree with you. Unless you train with full contact, your not realy training. Forms are traditional, we learn forms at my school, but we realize their value and take them for what they are. We also know that most fights will not be against a trained fighter but against a brawler and more than likely end up on the ground. So many T.C.M.A. Schools wont admit that because they are not equipted to teach that, so the students loose out.
Take some comfort in the fact that your time although spent on repetitious learning of forms, was not wasted. The journey that a man makes through life, the paths he chooses and the victories and losses that are his own, make him who he his.

[Troll Virus]

If learning to fight is your goal? Then you definately 100% would.

Ask any Thai Boxer. You know the ones.... the ones who win in stand up competitions against Kung Fu "masters" until, that is, the "kung fu" guy starts to train like the Thai Boxer!

Haw haw haw!

How many do you know Thai Bri?

[Thai Bri]

If learning to fight is your goal? Then you definately 100% would.

Ask any Thai Boxer. You know the ones.... the ones who win in stand up competitions against Kung Fu "masters" until, that is, the "kung fu" guy starts to train like the Thai Boxer!

Haw haw haw!

[Sagacious Lu]

Heres an experiment. Look at this video and then find examples of moves directly like these being used in any encounter between resisting opponents.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSTyL333hRk&NR

I mean human opponents! Not Monkeys, Dragons or Snakes!

We spent hour after hour on this sort of thing. It got to the point where I felt like I'd get more out of my work out if I stayed home and hit my bag instead of going to class.

[Thai Bri]

Heres an experiment. Look at this video and then find examples of moves directly like these being used in any encounter between resisting opponents.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSTyL333hRk&NR

I mean human opponents! Not Monkeys, Dragons or Snakes!

[Sagacious Lu]

you cant use alot of the stuff you learn because it would require u to really hurt the other person.

well maybe it just me and im not doing it right, but when i like spar for fun outside of my school, i never use the stuff i learn. i always just end up stopping right before i actually hit them. im not really into the strength thing, but sparing with someone that throws fast punches is hard

This sounds like an excuse not to spar; at my gym we do hit each other and it does hurt, but that's what you have to do if you want to get better.

[westway50]

ummm im not sure how u can even actually spare with most cma styles. most moves are like being able to escape locks or like twisting their arms or some other stuff. you can have forms that look like sparing but it really isnt a good idea to actually head on spare. you cant use alot of the stuff you learn because it would require u to really hurt the other person.

well maybe it just me and im not doing it right, but when i like spar for fun outside of my school, i never use the stuff i learn. i always just end up stopping right before i actually hit them. im not really into the strength thing, but sparing with someone that throws fast punches is hard

[Sagacious Lu]

Hey, when the schools priorities no longer match with yours, it's time to move on.

This is exactly what it came down to for me.

[GranFire]

I was getting progressively more frustrated, but the deal breaker was when I asked my teacher why I hadn't gotten a chance to spar in more than six months and he answered "Look around you. I have maybe 3 people who can realistically work with you, and I can't structure a whole class around four people even if you all show up on the same day." I didn't want to leave but after that I had to accept that that school just didn't have what I needed in order to progress. You can't improve without people to train with. The gym I go to know has a lot of people that I can work with (many of whom are a lot better than myself) so it's a much better environment for me.

That's a silly excuse, we have only 50 min. classes, sometimes we have non sparring students and we still can, depending on what we are working on most get a few rounds in. Lower ranks can work on forms etc while the others spar...and 3 or 4, that's enough for three rounds!

Hey, when the schools priorities no longer match with yours, it's time to move on.

[Sagacious Lu]

So Sag, was there one specific moment when you had your change of heart or did it build up over time?

I was getting progressively more frustrated, but the deal breaker was when I asked my teacher why I hadn't gotten a chance to spar in more than six months and he answered "Look around you. I have maybe 3 people who can realistically work with you, and I can't structure a whole class around four people even if you all show up on the same day." I didn't want to leave but after that I had to accept that that school just didn't have what I needed in order to progress. You can't improve without people to train with. The gym I go to know has a lot of people that I can work with (many of whom are a lot better than myself) so it's a much better environment for me.

[Thai Bri]

But...if you just want to kick someone's ass fast and pratice sparring... then take MMA kickboxing and wrestling.

Nah. Do forms, forms and more forms.