Why I don't practice kung fu anymore

[JadeDragon]

JadeDragon,


I know you've mentioned you trained in Shaolin-Do at one point. What other styles of kung fu have you trained in?

You don't have to name the sifu, I'm just interested in the styles you trained. I really only count the teachings of my current sifu. I learned a lot of forms from prior sifu, but it was my current sifu that put all that knowledge into something I could actually use.
jeff

In 1984 I trained in Shaolin do for about a year, I got to green belt. I trained under Sin The's brother Hiang The'.

Then in 1985 I trained in Sil Lum Kung Fu. I trained under Tony McIntire at Four Season Kung Fu & Wu Shu Academy owned by Grandmaster John Wing Lok Ng. He retired and closed the school in 1988. Thats when I started training under Master John Dufresne my current teacher. He was another teacher from Four Seasons who opened his school when Four Seasons closed so he knew me already I just didn't study under him while he was at Four Seasons. I've been with him every since.

While I was in college I had a few different groups of friends that I would work out with and exchange techniques with. One group did Aikido. They would show me some Aikido techniques and I'd show them some kung fu stuff. A lot of their techniques were very similiar to chin na kung fu.

Another group that I worked out with did shaolin kung fu.

And another group that I worked out with did Hapkido. But to be honest the stuff looked more like kung fu than anything Korean so I don't know if they really knew what they were doing or not.

In or around 2000 I studied BJJ. I trained BJJ for a little less than a year.

And in high school I wrestled (1988 to 1991). I wrestled at the 160 weight class.

[jubaji]

No I have excellent kung fu.

Yeah, that's what tigerclown says too.

[jmd161]

JadeDragon,


I know you've mentioned you trained in Shaolin-Do at one point. What other styles of kung fu have you trained in?

You don't have to name the sifu, I'm just interested in the styles you trained. I really only count the teachings of my current sifu. I learned a lot of forms from prior sifu, but it was my current sifu that put all that knowledge into something I could actually use.


jeff

[JadeDragon]

JadeDragon,


You really prove with every post that you are not worthy of the title sifu! Of all the so called sifu you've trained under, you mean not (1) knew how to use traditional stances in a fight? It's obvious from your post you really have No Clue as to how these stances are meant to be used. Yes! I could use Bow and Arrow stance in a fight...Yes! I could also pull off a Mabo (horse) stance In a fight.

Would I use it in the method it's taught in forms?

No!

You don't just drop into or start in a stance...you have to transition into them. Bow and Arrow is one of the easier stances to use...It's used as a trip or even as a take down, but based on your self described experience, It's obvious you can't even begin to fathom what I'm talking about.

And that is the sad part...because it's really just basic kung fu. You don't even have a understanding of the basics, so your kung fu knowledge is based off a shaky foundation to say the least.

You really need to seek out a REAL sifu...because all you've had up to now are pretend ones. I don't even have to know who they are, if they couldn't teach you how to transition into stances. Foot work is very important within kung fu, It's why some lines of Praying Mantis use Monkey foot work. It's why styles like Hung Gar and Black Tiger are taught to fight with their legs (using stances) to help uproot or take down their opponent. But I'm wasting my time telling you this stuff...because you obviously can't see the Forrest for all the trees.
jeff

No I have excellent kung fu. You made it sound as if you would fight from a front stance or as you call it a bow and arrow stance. You made it sound like you would just drop into the stance and throw your kick. You also made it sound like you would just drop into ma bu and throw your punches. Thats what I was talking about. I know how to use these stances, I didn't think you did. I mis interpreted what you were saying by thinking you were going to fight from these stances.

[Tant01]

Snake oil is nothing new. Buyer beware! Same ol' same... Always a new generation of vipers to prey on the naive...

What can you do?

[jmd161]

I just don't understand....

How can anyone walk around wearing the title of sifu/teacher and not even know the basics of what they claim to be a teacher of?

How can someone openly take peoples money to teach them self defense, when they obviously don't know self defense?


Man, some of you fakes/frauds have some really big balls. You play on people like con men and take people money looking them directly in the eye. There really should be regulation within martial arts schools. It wold force some of you BS guys into the light where you should be.


jeff

[jmd161]

That's ludacris! You would use a front stance/bo stance in a real fight? Or use a horse stance? If you used a front stance in a real fight all you would have to do is sweep that front leg because all your weight is on it and you would fall flat. If you used a horse stance you would be vulnerable to groin attacks. You can still use kung fu techniques with out using traditional stances. Would you use an eagle stance? I hope to God you wouldn't.

JadeDragon,


You really prove with every post that you are not worthy of the title sifu! Of all the so called sifu you've trained under, you mean not (1) knew how to use traditional stances in a fight? It's obvious from your post you really have No Clue as to how these stances are meant to be used. Yes! I could use Bow and Arrow stance in a fight...Yes! I could also pull off a Mabo (horse) stance In a fight.

Would I use it in the method it's taught in forms?

No!

You don't just drop into or start in a stance...you have to transition into them. Bow and Arrow is one of the easier stances to use...It's used as a trip or even as a take down, but based on your self described experience, It's obvious you can't even begin to fathom what I'm talking about.

And that is the sad part...because it's really just basic kung fu. You don't even have a understanding of the basics, so your kung fu knowledge is based off a shaky foundation to say the least.

You really need to seek out a REAL sifu...because all you've had up to now are pretend ones. I don't even have to know who they are, if they couldn't teach you how to transition into stances. Foot work is very important within kung fu, It's why some lines of Praying Mantis use Monkey foot work. It's why styles like Hung Gar and Black Tiger are taught to fight with their legs (using stances) to help uproot or take down their opponent. But I'm wasting my time telling you this stuff...because you obviously can't see the Forrest for all the trees.


jeff

[JadeDragon]

No! I'm not suggesting that they can be used in a fight...I'm telling you that traditional stances can be used in a fight! jeff

That's ludacris! You would use a front stance/bo stance in a real fight? Or use a horse stance? If you used a front stance in a real fight all you would have to do is sweep that front leg because all your weight is on it and you would fall flat. If you used a horse stance you would be vulnerable to groin attacks. You can still use kung fu techniques with out using traditional stances. Would you use an eagle stance? I hope to God you wouldn't.

[JadeDragon]

all i can say is, nearly all fighting styles have adapted over the years to become more succesful in a fight, guess which of the few who havent are?......yep u got it kung fu, one of the oldest styles around has not adapted, not even a little bit, in my mind thats enough to understand that it is not a good stlye to train in if ur gonna go out and defend ur self from 6 foot neo nazis lol, it is good for only one thing, learning to control ur body which is good.... if thats all u wanna do......

I have to disagree with you on just about all accounts with you BUT lets say I agree that kung fu doesn't teach you how to fight. There are still things kung fu teaches that are valuable. First it teaches the basics that are needed if you were to cross over and train mma. It teaches you kicks, punches, and as you said how to control your body. It also teaches discpline, it teaches how to set goals and how to achieve those goals, and it gives self confidence, and its good exercise.

[cyco]

all i can say is, nearly all fighting styles have adapted over the years to become more succesful in a fight, guess which of the few who havent are?......yep u got it kung fu, one of the oldest styles around has not adapted, not even a little bit, in my mind thats enough to understand that it is not a good stlye to train in if ur gonna go out and defend ur self from 6 foot neo nazis lol, it is good for only one thing, learning to control ur body which is good.... if thats all u wanna do......

[CrushingFist]

This is so true, I can relate to the topic starter

[jmd161]

I'm afraid you just blew your credibility; you might as well tell me that water isn't wet. Can you post a video of the stances being used against a decent fighter in a real fight?

I really don't care about my "credibility" on a martial art forum. Half the people on forums talking about martial arts are wannabe's that have at the most taken a few classes or spent less than a yr in any martial art.

As for the second part of your post..Are you serious?

Of all the real fights that take place all over the US alone everyday...How many of them are video taped? And you want me to have video of a martial artist using stances in a real fight?

Classic!

jeff

[Sagacious Lu]

2.) The style has already lost most of it's combative effectiveness and is too far removed from it's original form to recover.

Exactly.

No! I'm not suggesting that they can be used in a fight...I'm telling you that traditional stances can be used in a fight!

I'm afraid you just blew your credibility; you might as well tell me that water isn't wet. Can you post a video of the stances being used against a decent fighter in a real fight?

[jmd161]

Honestly by the time you were done trying to reform the system I practiced it wouldn't bear any resemblance to what it is now. In any case I wouldn't want to bother personally; why try to make it something it's not when there are plenty of other excellent styles and gyms to choose from.

Very good point, you'd be wasting your time trying to change your old school. If they were that far removed chances are it was one of two possible reasons.

1.) The school is profitable for the sifu and would not be worth losing It just to appease you.

Or

2.) The style has already lost most of it's combative effectiveness and is too far removed from it's original form to recover.

For the most part the movements in the forms bore little to no relationship to the combat techniques that they were supposed to represent. It wasn't a matter of my teacher not understanding them, the problem is that they're just not effective ways to teach the techniques they're associated with.

There could be several reasons for that. Chances are like many a style the techniques have been tweaked and adjusted to make them look better for demos and tournaments. After a while the adjusted techniques become all that's remembered and just that quick another style has lost it's combat effectiveness. Kung fu has been on a slow downward spiral for many decades, BJJ and MMA just made people notice a lot quicker than they would've otherwise.

Are you suggesting that the traditional stances can be used in a fight?

No! I'm not suggesting that they can be used in a fight...I'm telling you that traditional stances can be used in a fight!


jeff

[Sagacious Lu]

Perhaps the removal of forms could be the evolution of kungfu that focuses more on application? I know in Judo the Katas are rarely taught anymore and if they are it is simply for traditional belt promotions.

Honestly by the time you were done trying to reform the system I practiced it wouldn't bear any resemblance to what it is now. In any case I wouldn't want to bother personally; why try to make it something it's not when there are plenty of other excellent styles and gyms to choose from.

As I stated in the other thread. In kung-fu, form is NOT the same as application. But in many styles that are effective, form IS ALSO the application.

I agree completely. For the most part the movements in the forms bore little to no relationship to the combat techniques that they were supposed to represent. It wasn't a matter of my teacher not understanding them, the problem is that they're just not effective ways to teach the techniques they're associated with.

You would not just stand in a deep horse or cat stance during a fight. You are supposed to transition from stances and when needed for a throw or trip or take down you transition into a horse or arrow or cat stance.

Are you suggesting that the traditional stances can be used in a fight?