Why I don't practice kung fu anymore

[Troll Virus]

Now you're just lying. The conversation you're talking about is in the thread about "aliveness" in the Urban Combatives forum. You were bashing both Matt Thornton and Bullshido and I called bullshit on you. If anyone actaully gives a shit you can find the post in question on page 3. Of course, you and I both know that it doesn't really matter and the only reason you're bringing that up is to try and gloss over the fact that you haven't refuted any of the points that I've made so far.

Not at all.
Here's what you said on that thread;

For that matter why bring up Bullshido? You've brought it up just to bash the site on here before. I really don't understand why it's so important to you that you would bring it up just to disparage it. It sounds like you're just bitter because you got made fun of over there. Get over it man, it's just a web site. My guess is that for you to be this butt-hurt over the term aliveness you must never have trained with it; why else would a simple word bother you so much?

Here's my reply;

I wouldn't say I'm directly bothered about What Matt says or does, but the results generated by the poor material he has written, it's use 'out of context' and it's misunderstanding does.

SL-
For that matter why bring up Bullshido? You've brought it up just to bash the site on here before.

TV-So your a little sensitive on that score?
Sorry, I didn't know.

SL-
I really don't understand why it's so important to you that you would bring it up just to disparage it. It sounds like you're just bitter because you got made fun of over there.

TV-Well it depends on how you look at it. The way I look at it, it was more the other way round.

You haven't bothered to address any of my points, why should I answer your questions?

I addressed everything that vaguely resembled a point.

Frankly I ignored them because they aren't relevant. They're all about me personally and even if I'm the biggest tomato can ever to step into the ring that doesn't invalidate the points I've made about Hung Gar.

See that's what I'm interested in though.
I'm interested in YOUR opinions, not someone elses.

If you're so adamantly opposed to what I'm saying why don't you offer an alternative view of the system?

I can't.
I trained one fist form in Hung Gar.
Like I said, that's why I'm interested in your opinion.

You're just trying to shift attention away from the style we're discussing and onto me because you can't refute any of my points.

No I'm not.
You can't hold the style up as a sheild to protect your opinion though.

If you can't articulate why you disagree than you have to admit that I'm right.

So lets get to that point then, m'kay?

[Sagacious Lu]

You brought it up previously.
I don't have a complex about it, but you clearly do.
It's hilarious to me how seriously Bullshito, and all who nutride her festering corpse think everyone should take them.

Now you're just lying. The conversation you're talking about is in the thread about "aliveness" in the Urban Combatives forum. You were bashing both Matt Thornton and Bullshido and I called bullshit on you. If anyone actaully gives a shit you can find the post in question on page 3. Of course, you and I both know that it doesn't really matter and the only reason you're bringing that up is to try and gloss over the fact that you haven't refuted any of the points that I've made so far.

My previous posts are littered with questions you have failed to even attempt to address.

You know, about the thread topic you started?

You haven't bothered to address any of my points, why should I answer your questions? Frankly I ignored them because they aren't relevant. They're all about me personally and even if I'm the biggest tomato can ever to step into the ring that doesn't invalidate the points I've made about Hung Gar. If you're so adamantly opposed to what I'm saying why don't you offer an alternative view of the system? You're just trying to shift attention away from the style we're discussing and onto me because you can't refute any of my points. If you can't articulate why you disagree than you have to admit that I'm right.

[Troll Virus]

I really don't feel the need to defend myself because your personal attacks are pathetic. I do think it's hilarious that you have such a complex about Bullshido though- something about that place really pisses you off for some reason. What makes you so sure I even post over there?

You brought it up previously.
I don't have a complex about it, but you clearly do.
It's hilarious to me how seriously Bullshito, and all who nutride her festering corpse think everyone should take them.

Now;

My previous posts are littered with questions you have failed to even attempt to address.

You know, about the thread topic you started?

[Thai Bri]

Soem of the common nonsense arguments from TMA in evidence. Arguments such as "they're are good fighting arts!.... but they're not about fighting.... they'r about self improvement........." and the old favourite "if you don't have my beliefs you are trolling."

[Sagacious Lu]

Actually, it was you who first brought it up (not on this thread).
How about dealing with the comment though?

Is this where you cry for help on Bullshido?
Post links about the bad Andy poking fun at you?

Could you just deal with this on your lonesome?

I really don't feel the need to defend myself because your personal attacks are pathetic. I do think it's hilarious that you have such a complex about Bullshido though- something about that place really pisses you off for some reason. What makes you so sure I even post over there?

[Troll Virus]

What the hell are you talking about? I'm talking about a system that has questionable training practices.

So if it's such a big issue for you, then what are you doing about it?

How I portray it? I'm just quoting from the school brochure. You can't give me the line of crap about how "they're not trying to learn self defense they're just there for self-improvement" because the school makes it very clear what it's goal is.

See above.

Of course. They're all over the place.

Great.
So tell us about your training and all those fights you've been in then?

Yeah, I trained hard at something that works and my skills improved, I guess that makes me a real loser :P

If you're happy with your training then tell us about it.
If it's that good, then that's what you'd be doing and you wouldn't give a jot what other people were doing.
You're happy right?

I left when I ran out of training partners. There's just no getting around the fact that you need people to practice with in order to get better.

Ah.
Best of the best eh?
They made a film about that!

Anyone that's really knowledgable should be able to understand where I'm coming from. If someone finds this thread so offensive that they won't so much as try to communicate with me than they're obviously too insecure to have a mature discussion anyway.

Applause.
Way to isolate yourself bud!

What about Bullshido? Why do you keep bringing it up? I haven't mentioned the site because I don't see what it has to do with this thread. You have a real issue with that site don't you?

Actually, it was you who first brought it up (not on this thread).
How about dealing with the comment though?

I also feel it relevant to point out, that your overly expressed perspective would be relatively pedestrian on Bullshido and can't help wondering if you are not exercising your own ego by'standing out' on defend.net.
I think that's called 'Attention-Seeking'

Is this where you cry for help on Bullshido?
Post links about the bad Andy poking fun at you?

Could you just deal with this on your lonesome?

[jubaji]

Sadly, they can't be bothered.
If people wanted to find somewhere they'd be offended every which whey they turned, there are certainly worse forums they could go to, but without allowing people a little slack, why would they stay here?
I think, like SL and TB, you think of the forum in terms of 'What Suits You' rather than the needs of others.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

If 'discussion' in your mind is limited to repeating over and over again, "Gee, isn't 'X' great? Yeah, its sure great!" even the most zombified adherent is gonna run out of things to say mighty quick. You can't be afraid of questions and different points of view. Taking a hard look makes a position stronger or causes a change in point of view. Not necessarily a bad thing. Is your opinion of CMA so poor that you feel it can't stand before scrutiny even after all this time?

[jubaji]

Kind of my point right there;
CMA is not being discussed.
CMA as it relates to other things IS.

Considering how a thing relates to other things of a similar category is discussion of that thing.

[Sagacious Lu]

Do you?
Personally, I look for people who know what they are talking about.
I thought that was your point though; that history and tradition were unproven if not improvable and that only that which could be physically proved was acceptable to you?

What the hell are you talking about? I'm talking about a system that has questionable training practices.

So is your problem with the style, or rather how you portray it to be marketed?

How I portray it? I'm just quoting from the school brochure. You can't give me the line of crap about how "they're not trying to learn self defense they're just there for self-improvement" because the school makes it very clear what it's goal is.

So have you found any schools where all they do is fight yet?

Of course. They're all over the place.

Yada yada yada.
I'm happy for you.
Finally kicking sand in the bullies faces n stuff must be just terrific right now.

Yeah, I trained hard at something that works and my skills improved, I guess that makes me a real loser :P

Bingo.
So how many years did it take you to realise this?

I left when I ran out of training partners. There's just no getting around the fact that you need people to practice with in order to get better.

Groundhog day again.
You're not doing anything for/against CMA one way or the other.
You and Thai Bri need to get over your own ideas of your self importance.
What you ARE doing, is putting off people better equipped than you, me or Thai Bri, from taking part in defend.net.

Anyone that's really knowledgable should be able to understand where I'm coming from. If someone finds this thread so offensive that they won't so much as try to communicate with me than they're obviously too insecure to have a mature discussion anyway.

I also feel it relevant to point out, that your overly expressed perspective would be relatively pedestrian on Bullshido and can't help wondering if you are not exercising your own ego by'standing out' on defend.net.
I think that's called 'Attention-Seeking'

What about Bullshido? Why do you keep bringing it up? I haven't mentioned the site because I don't see what it has to do with this thread. You have a real issue with that site don't you?

[Troll Virus]

Because discussing CMA can hardly be detrimental to a forum dedicated to discussing CMA. Its not so hard to understand.

Kind of my point right there;
CMA is not being discussed.
CMA as it relates to other things IS.

And anyone who is so "put off" by examination, criticism, and even vigorous debate that they run away from a forum isn't worth bothering with anyway.
I mean, they can't be too terribly 'martial' if they are scared away by a 'discussion.'

Sadly, they can't be bothered.
If people wanted to find somewhere they'd be offended every which whey they turned, there are certainly worse forums they could go to, but without allowing people a little slack, why would they stay here?
I think, like SL and TB, you think of the forum in terms of 'What Suits You' rather than the needs of others.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[jubaji]

LOL.
C'mon jubaji, tell us why that's so?

Because discussing CMA can hardly be detrimental to a forum dedicated to discussing CMA. Its not so hard to understand.

And anyone who is so "put off" by examination, criticism, and even vigorous debate that they run away from a forum isn't worth bothering with anyway.
I mean, they can't be too terribly 'martial' if they are scared away by a 'discussion.'

[Troll Virus]

I could not disagree more.

LOL.
C'mon jubaji, tell us why that's so?
Read the thread, understand the backgrounds and issues of each person mentioned, then spray us with your pearly drops of wisdom.

Note though, that I've been looking through the CMA section of this board today, and noted a host of people who just gave up on the forum over the last three years.

[jubaji]

What you ARE doing, is putting off people better equipped than you, me or Thai Bri, from taking part in defend.net..

I could not disagree more.

[Troll Virus]

When I want to study history (and I do enjoy reading about history) I look for historians, not martial artists.

Do you?
Personally, I look for people who know what they are talking about.
I thought that was your point though; that history and tradition were unproven if not improvable and that only that which could be physically proved was acceptable to you?

When I signed up the school billed itself as "The Ultimate in Self-Defense". I took it for granted that the claim was hyperbolic but it was clear that on of the school's main goals was to prepare you to fight.

So is your problem with the style, or rather how you portray it to be marketed?

TV-"To teach you 'how to fight?'
'Fighting' is all too easy to get experience of "

SL-"Not at that school it wasn't; they did everything but there."

So have you found any schools where all they do is fight yet?





Why is that? Is it because you're offended that I actually expect to be able to use a martial art in a fight, or is it because I'm supposed to pretend that the time I spent practicing those jumping spinning kicks was as helpful for self-defense as the time I spend sparring now? The reason you're not going to respond is because you won't admit that I'm right but you don't have a counter-argument either.
Nope.

Bullshit I can evaluate my skills, my fundamental skills have grown by leaps and bounds. There are a number of people that I can now dominate in sparring that used to be able to embarass me at will. You can willfully disbelieve what I'm telling you but the fact is that I have seen far more tangible growth in my ability with my current training methods than I ever did at my previous school.

Yada yada yada.
I'm happy for you.
Finally kicking sand in the bullies faces n stuff must be just terrific right now.

This is a fancy way of trying to get out of making a counter-argument.

No it's not.
It's something you've yet to realise.
Truth is not a fixed number, it is a variable perspective which makes discussion both interesting and tiresome.

Exactly, I gave up CMA because I was told it was "the ultimate in self-defense" but there was very little actual self-defense in the curriculum. I was fine with getting a little history mixed into the lesson but that was not what I went there for and the system did not perform as advertised.

Bingo.
So how many years did it take you to realise this?

If I wanted history lessons I'd enroll in some college courses, I went there to learn self-defense like it promised in the school brochure.

Brought a tear of compassion to my eye.
Poor you.
Whatever did you do next?

The rest of the world can make of it what they want, I for one will continue to speak my mind. The forum is here to discuss the CMAs, which is what I'm doing by providing legitimate criticism of one prominent CMA.

Groundhog day again.
You're not doing anything for/against CMA one way or the other.
You and Thai Bri need to get over your own ideas of your self importance.
What you ARE doing, is putting off people better equipped than you, me or Thai Bri, from taking part in defend.net.
I also feel it relevant to point out, that your overly expressed perspective would be relatively pedestrian on Bullshido and can't help wondering if you are not exercising your own ego by'standing out' on defend.net.
I think that's called 'Attention-Seeking'

Go ahead and report my post if you want, I'm pretty sure I haven't said anything that will upset the mods.

Likewise.

You are certainly in no position to pass judgement on me.

EVERYONE here, is in a position to pass judgement on you.
Me too!

LOL at you trying to attack me with semantics.

Attack you with semantics?
No.
The title of your thread was stupid.
I knew what you meant, but anyone knowing anything about CMA would think you were either a noob, or perhaps just a bit dim.

[Sagacious Lu]

[QUOTE=Tom Yum;263388]

Do they teach jump spinning kicks in Hung gar? I did not know this.

They sure do. When I first got to the school we practiced them very rarely because we had a hard-nosed group of students so my teacher focused on things that were more practical. As the senior students drifted away the school started focusing on demonstrations to make up for the lack of tuition money and we started doing that sort of thing a lot more often.