Wing Chun let me down in a fight

[freefighter2010]

jubaji,

Lets make peace for christsake I dont want to wage war with you on this forum. There is too much blood being spilt here can we just make friends and drop the war ?.

Please lets talk more offline i wish to learn more about your background as i can see you can add much value to my life as an experienced martial artist..

T

[Red Rum]

Guy, guys, guys, calm down!!

Jubajii - yes some (in fact a lot of) wing chun does not work. I have seen a lot of instructors believe that they can tan sao a person who is repeatedly hitting and kicking them

Yet there are also some exceptional fighters who use wing chun for street combat.

Certainly the famous guys like Alan Orr, Kevin Chan, James Sinclair etc would give any boxer a run for his money

But as we have mentioned before, boxing (despite being a great art) has its limitations too.

There are good boxing clubs and bad boxing clubs

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if a martial art is not good at street level, provided the school acknowledges that.

The BJJ club I go to stated quite categorically that many elements of BJJ is not for fighting at self defence level and is more for sport.
Yet many BJJ schools work on practical (no gi) grappling for street defence

Both schools teach very good techniques and none is worse than the other

Wing chun's problem is that many instructors will tell you that wing chun in general will kill a guy in 20 seconds, when it won't.
Wing chun is very useful if learnt right and if taken for what it is.

An average nerdy guy who doesn't want to spend years building his body up etc will get stuck in arts like boxing, MT and BJJ etc, as it does require a degree of athleticism and strength.

If you are past the age of 40, those kind of arts are going to be difficult to get into, so it is nice for those kind of people to have an art that doesn't rely on strength

Jubajii - just chill man. Everyone has their preferences, and not everyone wants to enter the UFC and fight to the death.

Peace out

[Guest]

Certainly the famous guys like Alan Orr, Kevin Chan, James Sinclair etc would give any boxer a run for his money

I think Mr Sinclair and Mr Chan are very good at what they do, I have not met or seen Mr Orr work so I won't pass comment. I moved into amateur boxing after 15 years of martial arts, and it is a different world. The level of athletic talent and fighting ability both inside and outside of a ring is extremely high - and very functional. I think all the gentlemen you have named would agree it is an incredibly bold statement saying they would give "any boxer" a run for his money.

[bodhisattva]

When I hear some guy who has practiced Wing Chun for some time say "I was in an altercation, and I got my ass beat. Maybe Wing Chun actually sucks."

I tend to agree with him.

Heck, I tend praise him. He just took a massive step towards growth and admitted something very difficult.

I have trouble, these days, understanding why anyone supports anything like Wing Chun as if it were functional.

[jubaji]

In jubaji's defense, he's probably as chilled out as he's ever been. Despite some thought to the contrary, jubaji doesn't strike me as the type to take most of what's said here too personally. That's part of why it can be so entertaining when others take him so personally.

Well, don't ruin the fun by letting the newbies in on it!

[jubaji]

That's right, dammit! All you sonsabitches better damn well remember it too!

GyaaaAAAAaaarraaaaaAAAAaarrrrrRRRaaaa!

[jubaji]

No promises.

[Red Rum]

I think Mr Sinclair and Mr Chan are very good at what they do, I have not met or seen Mr Orr work so I won't pass comment. I moved into amateur boxing after 15 years of martial arts, and it is a different world. The level of athletic talent and fighting ability both inside and outside of a ring is extremely high - and very functional. I think all the gentlemen you have named would agree it is an incredibly bold statement saying they would give "any boxer" a run for his money.

A 'run for their money' does not mean that they would beat any boxer in the world! I am just saying that the ways these guys train are equal to if not more than a lot of boxers

Kevin Chan has been training with UFC fighters and extremely good boxers for a good part of the 90's and this side of the 21st century

Look at the Kamon webiste for his training clips

Alan Orr also has clips on Youtube which are extremely good but he is better in person

I think a lot of people have seen a fraction of wing chun and have given up on it. The fact that there are people like Mike Brewer (a boxer and wing chunner) shows that wing chun isn't all bad.

People like Jubajii seem to have taken one lesson under one instructor in wing chun and base the whole art on that.

If I had done that when t came to MT, I would not be doing it now

You have to get around and try different schools. If one school is teaching you something you don;t like or that doesn't work, go to another school. But don't necessarily change arts!

[freefighter2010]

Thanks Mike I was concerned that I incurred this gentlemans wrath. I dont want him beating me upto a pulp ! i dont stand a chance against him

In jubaji's defense, he's probably as chilled out as he's ever been. Despite some thought to the contrary, jubaji doesn't strike me as the type to take most of what's said here too personally. That's part of why it can be so entertaining when others take him so personally.

[Guest]

I am just saying that the ways these guys train are equal to if not more than a lot of boxers

I know, and I am disagreeing with you.

I have seen the clips in question, and I don't mean to be rude or disrespectul to either person, but the boxing is not of a good quality - in my opinion.

In terms of the rest of your post, none of my comments were aimed at Wing Chun, so its not really relavent to me. My point was and is simply that your notion of these gentlemen giving boxers a run for their money, is something I disagree with.

[bodhisattva]

You have to get around and try different schools. If one school is teaching you something you don;t like or that doesn't work, go to another school. But don't necessarily change arts!

If I see a witch doctor trying to cure heart disease with voodoo, and it doesn't work, I don't assume I should just go find another witch doctor.

When I see Wing Chun make a face in ANY kind of unlimited fighting competition with ANY consistency, then I'll pay attention. Honestly. I'm fair. If they can pull it off, repeatedly, I'm interested.

Until then, I'll keep working my Freestlye/Greco handfighting drills.

And having a really sweet time, too.

[bodhisattva]

A 'run for their money' does not mean that they would beat any boxer in the world! I am just saying that the ways these guys train are equal to if not more than a lot of boxers
You have to get around and try different schools. If one school is teaching you something you don;t like or that doesn't work, go to another school. But don't necessarily change arts!

Yes, but lots of us on here have gone to tons of different Wing Chun teachers (individually) and have each decided it is a really inefficient (ineffective) system.

I am pretty sure Wing Chun works pretty well for one handed nuns that have a club foot. I mean, that's who came up with the system (we're told) her name was Wing Chun.

However, I'm a guy with both hands and feet still working. I figured I'd do best to find a system created by another guy who had both his hands and feet still.

We all went to different Wing Chun schools, and we each individually decided that we pretty much don't have much faith in it.

--

I am not interested in martial arts that promise to make me "an ok fighter" in a year, and a "great fighter" or a "master" in 10 years.

I might be, but wont be, so long as there are martial arts that can make me able to beat up the "master" after 4-6 months of training and some relatively minor levels of conditioning.

And that's what we all pretty much found in Wing Chun class - some "master" who could be defeated by a relatively new boxer or wrestler.

--

It's not that I never push my opponent's arms across his chest and pin them there - I just don't call the move something in Chinese, and I don't practice it with a useless energy drill that mimics positions that don't even occur in fighting.

[freefighter2010]

Hi Mike,

I spoke to someone who use to do alot of street fighting years ago. He says it is not about the style. The most powerful weapon is the mind.

I thought about this and i think he is right what do u think my friend ?

None of us do. None of us do.

[JKDBrando]

Sucks Wing Chun has failed you. Was it because he was a better striker? You were halfassing it? You weren't intense or using emotional intent? If the last 2 are the answer or similar to the answer then you failed yourself.

IMO Wing Chun makes you a better Boxer and vise versa.
Remember what these instructors show you are theoretical and the way the fight goes is unknown. So use what you know all incontext and use it if it's useful.

Yin-Yang

[freefighter2010]

How does standing in the middle of the Dojo practising chain punching in thin air make u a better boxer. Please explain..

Boxers punch, hook, weave, duck unlike wc guys please correct me if i am wrong

Sucks Wing Chun has failed you. Was it because he was a better striker? You were halfassing it? You weren't intense or using emotional intent? If the last 2 are the answer or similar to the answer then you failed yourself.

IMO Wing Chun makes you a better Boxer and vise versa.
Remember what these instructors show you are theoretical and the way the fight goes is unknown. So use what you know all incontext and use it if it's useful.

Yin-Yang