Wing Tsun?

[EricD]

So i've been browsing other martial arts forums and i've noticed some complaints against Wing Tsun. Specifically:

Lack of fighting, lack of pressure testing, complete focus on non-martial training.

Claims that you should strengthen your tendons and ligaments to make you fast and muscles slow you down.

Focus on a "trapping" range, which is so transient, you never have time to keep the range, it's like making a car and focusing on how the steering wheel looks and never looking at the engine.

No aliveness.

Forms approach to learning.

Over emphasis on "sensitivity" training, which is pointless."

MOST IMPORTANTLY
Failure to realize that chain punching is shitty arm punches, and their choice in fighting stance gives them no chance to use their hips for power.

It's over all, a shitty martial art, and everything you don't want to train, if you want to learn to fight.

Mind you, this is from Bullshido Forums, and I don't take those guys seriously in any way, shape or form. But is Wing Tsun really such a bad martial art? I take Deluxe Martial Arts Forum's opinion much more seriously and I'd like to know from people with actual experience if Wing Tsun is such a 'shitty' style?

[TTEscrima]

At one time or another WC has been integrated into the training programs of the US Navy Seals, the FBI, the French RAID and the German SEK units. SEAL Team 4 was particularly well known for their proficiency and high regard for WC. Like any art it depends on who teaches it and how you train it.

[fire cobra]

Personally i think Wing Chun has a lot of value both Martial and Art wise.

[Red Rum]

Some wing chun is excellent and is a nice art to take up first before moving onto other arts (like MT or karate)

It soleley depends on what you are looking for.
Youtube has plenty of clips of people practising WT, but it is also good to go down to a class and see what you think of it

Every martial art has something to offer

[Adept]

Eric,

Ditto on all the above authors' comments.

Every art is different for every person.

The guys at Bullshido bash up on Wing Chun because most of those posters are BJJ players. What'd you expect from a BJJ dominated board to talk of Wing Chun?

People say that trapping range is a useless, short time thing. Not true at all. I think clinching is a form of trapping, yet no one states that is a useless, short term range.

So chin up.

[peppi]

Lack of fighting, lack of pressure testing, complete focus on non-martial training.

Exactly the opposite

Claims that you should strengthen your tendons and ligaments to make you fast and muscles slow you down.

Who states that?

Focus on a "trapping" range,

And on some others

Forms approach to learning.

Exactly the opposite

Over emphasis on "sensitivity" training, which is pointless."

Sensible method that will teach you to feel and deflect the opponent's force.

Failure to realize that chain punching is shitty arm punches, and their choice in fighting stance gives them no chance to use their hips for power.

Power is generated from the legs and the ground. Chain punches are for beginners. Combat strategy comes from the Wooden Dummy and Biu Jee.

[Red Rum]

I like this discussion as it is a more logical arguments for points for and against wing chun, instead of people's personal bias

I know that some guys on here have gone to a couple of rubbish wing chun schools and judge the art based on that. What doesn't help is the lack of 'apparent' wing chun, ie wing chun you can see either through mediums like wing chun, or on a competition level (UFC)

Therefore people dispute the value of wing chun

All I would say is that I have been to karate schools, boxing gyms, TKD schools and even BJJ schools where the training was poor.

As for Peppi - well done for the clear and concise answers. To answer one of them about muscles being counter productive to wing chun - I have seen Leung Ting say this, William Cheung say this and most famously is the criticism Bruce Lee received for his body shape (muscle).

Peronally I would rather have muscle in case I need it (ie don't put all your eggs in one basket)

[peppi]

As for Peppi - well done for the clear and concise answers.

Thank you

I have seen Leung Ting say this, William Cheung say this

For their advertising articles I will spare my comments. No way to train on the dummy or with the weapons without being fit.

the criticism Bruce Lee received for his body shape (muscle)

By envious people not looking at their personal development

[Wilks123]

Well i have been looking for a martial art to take up for a while now about 4 months and i have been to loads of different schools for different arts. Now i am new so i don't know much but i have finally taken up wing tsun full time. I was dubious about it first because of the bad stuff i'd heard but when i tried it i loved it. My teacher is very good and talks sense, teaching realistic and street effective techniques. When i first went there i knew nothing, now after only a couple months i feel i could already competently defend myself if need be.
I went to a couple of bad wing tsun schools as well in the beginning and didden't think much of it but then i found the place i am now and it's great! So basically i'd just check out the places around you and make your own judgement, but don't judge the whole art as being rubbish if u find a bad school.

[Red Rum]

Wilks 23 - just a quick not of clarification. Wing Tsun is under the same federation (Leung Ting)
Wing chun is the general art
If you say that one Wing Tsun school is bad, please bear in mind that the Wing Tsun you train at now will be under the same banner

I presume you mean that you are training wing chun
If not, be careful talking to your instructor as he might get annoyed that you are slagging off an instructor from the same organisation!!

[Wilks123]

Oh right well i guess it is wing chun then as all the places i went to were all different organizations. Wing tsun isant the proper name for the martial art then?

I use to do another art for 2 years when i was a teen and i really enjoyed it. My instructor was excellent but when he left we got another instructor who's teaching methods were not quite up to par.
I'm just saying it's not the art thats poor, just the teaching methods if you've got a good teacher then you will improve and get better so ur just looking for the right instructor. Any company could have a great rep but be let down by a poor instructor.
I've heard alot of bad stuff about karate aswell but my brother did it and i wouldent like to get in a fight with him, because he had a good instructor with a well structured class.

Most instructors are great at there art but no so good at getting it across in a teaching form. That goes for all martial arts.

[Red Rum]

Oh right well i guess it is wing chun then as all the places i went to were all different organizations. Wing tsun isant the proper name for the martial art then?

Wing Tsun is a trademarked name. Our federation/style is called Kamon Wing Chun. So it would be like me travelling to another school that isn't part of our federation and calling it Kamon Wing Chun.

Every school will have its own name and come under a certain federation. The style you do will have its own name. If it is Wing Tsun, it has come from Leung Ting. A person shouldn't be calling it wing tsun if he isn't part of the Leung Ting organisation

I use to do another art for 2 years when i was a teen and i really enjoyed it. My instructor was excellent but when he left we got another instructor who's teaching methods were not quite up to par.
I'm just saying it's not the art thats poor, just the teaching methods if you've got a good teacher then you will improve and get better so ur just looking for the right instructor. Any company could have a great rep but be let down by a poor instructor.
I've heard alot of bad stuff about karate aswell but my brother did it and i wouldent like to get in a fight with him, because he had a good instructor with a well structured class.

Most instructors are great at there art but no so good at getting it across in a teaching form. That goes for all martial arts.

Very true. I know a lot of black belt BJJ instructors who aren't as good at teaching as some of the blue belts. Yet the black belts would easily destoy them.

It is often the case that a person is so advanced that he/she forgets what it was like to be a beginner so cannot relate to them.
They might be the best martial artist in the world, but it doesn't make them a great teacher

I currently train karate and find the instructor absolutely phenomenal because he knows what works and what doesn't.

[Laura]

I've been with the Wing Chun (turning style) for more than five years and one of the best fighting arts out there, but a lot, as with any style, depends on the quality of instruction and the teacher. Lately, I've been developing a strong interest in Bak Mei; I'd love to study, even once a month, if I could find someone in my area....this kid is just too cool for school...

YouTube - Bak Mei Kung Fu - Sek See Keun

[Red Rum]

Forgive me - is Bak Mei a style or a person?

[Sagacious Lu]

I won't tell you what to think but before you put your faith in wing chun or however you spell it I STRONGLY suggest you try competing in judo, B. ju jitsu, boxing, wrestling or kick boxing. The experience will make my argument far more elequently than I could.