Learning Baguazhang

[peppi]

Do you train 24 hours a day?

No.

move people without touching them is doing a disservice to the Traditional martial arts in general, if you disagree then you're part of the problem.

On the tapes of Dr. Painter I have not seen that nor I support it.
And see no point in talking to you in the future.

[TTEscrima]

how exactly would an ignorant old judo guy (like me for example) go about learning some "authentic Baqua"?(baguazhang) Li Zi, Hung Zhi, Ma Chuan Xu, etc?

Thanks kindly,

~R.

That depends on where you live and how much travel you're willing to do.
Adam Hsu runs an excellent School. AHKFS Home Page So does Tim Cartmell. Shen Wu I could recommend other teachers in different countries but those two are still the best place to start IMO.

Find yourself the Baqua Journal collection, it contains the Forms, exercises, interviews, history, theory and lineage from every legitimate BaquaZhang source (50 instructors). If they can't trace their lineage to one of the schools/teachers there then it's bogus, if they tell you they move people without touching them, it's bogus, if they'll lie about where they learned it and what they're capable of or what the art contains, it's hard to justify studying with them.

[Ghost]

If KOTF and I weren't pointing out the nonsense shown in his videos of moving people without touching them, you guys would be all over him just like you're all over Dillman and Yellow Bamboo (plenty of threads bashing them to be found here). However BECAUSE it was one of us who pointed out the Painter does the same shit, you're all cool with his claims and thinks it's fine. That in itself says more about this board and it's membership than anything else you'll ever post.

oh im not cool wiht it, i think the Painter guy is a complete twat. i completely agree with you on that point.

[TTEscrima]

TTescrima, may be it is more beneficial to spend time in training than in criticizing other instructors?
While the lineage of sifu Painter might be questionable the defensive strategies shown do not look like so.
In many situations of physical survival the intent, the fighting spirit are more important than the techniques itself.
Also the best instructor is not necessarily the best fighter and vice versa.

With friendly greeting,
Petar

Do you train 24 hours a day? Me either, on my breaks between teaching and training I also like to read/study the arts, (and occasionally I want to chuckle so sometimes I drop by this place too). That being said, ANYONE who puts out video and uses seminar time teaching/demonstrating abilities to move people without touching them is doing a disservice to the Traditional martial arts in general, if you disagree then you're part of the problem.

If Sylvia Brown and John Edwards didn't have a room full of people paying them to spout their BS then they wouldn't be spouting it...If Dillman, Painter and Yellow Bamboo didn't make money by spouting their BS lines they wouldn't be either. If you buy their material, you support their BS stories about the TMA's and help them destroy the truth.

[Tant01]

Show me...

Yes, If you want to learn to move people by controlling their Chi (and without ever touching them) Painters tapes are superb, however if you want to learn authentic Baqua with a verifiable lineage, you should look elsewhere.

how exactly would an ignorant old judo guy (like me for example) go about learning some "authentic Baqua"?(baguazhang) Li Zi, Hung Zhi, Ma Chuan Xu, etc?

Thanks kindly,

~R.

[TTEscrima]

If KOTF and I weren't pointing out the nonsense shown in his videos of moving people without touching them, you guys would be all over him just like you're all over Dillman and Yellow Bamboo (plenty of threads bashing them to be found here). However BECAUSE it was one of us who pointed out the Painter does the same shit, you're all cool with his claims and think it's fine. That in itself says more about this board and it's membership than anything else you'll ever post.

[Ghost]

I love this thread. its like a text book definition of why i think 90% of martial artists are complete nutters.

[jubaji]

I'd just like to point out that usually it's other people ridiculing an art while TTE defends it and claims we're all narrow minded.

Actually, it's usually TTExcrement defending the narrow definition of what a 'legitimate' art is (as defined by his ponytailed guru), so this fits in well with his previous behavior.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

I'd just like to point out that usually it's other people ridiculing an art while TTE defends it and claims we're all narrow minded. Now the roles have reversed .

[peppi]

TTescrima, may be it is more beneficial to spend time in training than in criticizing other instructors?
While the lineage of sifu Painter might be questionable the defensive strategies shown do not look like so.
In many situations of physical survival the intent, the fighting spirit are more important than the techniques itself.
Also the best instructor is not necessarily the best fighter and vice versa.

With friendly greeting,
Petar

[TTEscrima]

After much consideration I feel maybe you should lay of Dr. Painter a little TTE. He's a fellow CMA instructor with apparently large amounts of knowledge and ability.

He has given countless seminars to LEO's as well as civilians. He has numerous students who believe in what he does and say it works.

He should be exalted for being kind enough to share his abilities and knowledge with a world that clearly doesn't deserve it. Why should you put down such a great man because his methods and doctrine differs from other people's.

I think we have all been a little too harsh here on John and his student TTE don't you. If he feels using "intent" works for him, and it seems to do just fine, then leave it be and let it work.

Frankly I think one day a monument, like a tasteful statue, should be raised in Dr. Painters home town to let the world know what a great man and martial artist he was.

Thanks guys and sorry for any misunderstanding.

KOTF.

WTF??? Uh King did you slip and hit your head?

I mean really, how in the world can you saaaay tht Mr, Pnyr

Dr Painter is far too humble to ever accept a statue being erected in his name. The skills we've made fun of are simply too advanced for simpletons with our skills to comprehend. People often doubt the pioneers just look at all the detractors of Sylvia Brown or John Edwards! Those who doubt George Dillman's or Dr Painter's abilities should look to Benny Hinn to see that these powers do indeed exist. Ajhk fghtr mthe, What the hell? Aw DUDE, He used his intent to seize control of my fingers and type this post against my will!!

[kingoftheforest]

Tolerance is the key to growth.

After much consideration I feel maybe you should lay of Dr. Painter a little TTE. He's a fellow CMA instructor with apparently large amounts of knowledge and ability.

He has given countless seminars to LEO's as well as civilians. He has numerous students who believe in what he does and say it works.

He should be exalted for being kind enough to share his abilities and knowledge with a world that clearly doesn't deserve it. Why should you put down such a great man because his methods and doctrine differs from other people's.

I think we have all been a little too harsh here on John and his student TTE don't you. If he feels using "intent" works for him, and it seems to do just fine, then leave it be and let it work.

Frankly I think one day a monument, like a tasteful statue, should be raised in Dr. Painters home town to let the world know what a great man and martial artist he was.

Thanks guys and sorry for any misunderstanding.

KOTF.

[TTEscrima]

Intention is not Qi.

Oh so you make the distinction that he moves people with his intent, in other words he makes them move by willing them to do so. Yeah, that's much more realistic than using Chi to do it. George Dillman says the mind/intent leads/guides his Chi when he moves people without touching them. Sounds like maybe Dillman's hocus pocus is more refined than yours, now that's freakin' sad.


Yeah bub no vids of us using Jedi mind tricks to move our opponents against their will, sorry guess you'll have to keep worshiping Captain Painter the Jedi knight, or perhaps you can go to some of Dillman seminars since the force seems stronger in him.

And lets not forget I trained with the Jedi master personally when he was claiming to be Capt John Painter of the Rangers and thought he was full of baloney then, why would I need to train with his Jedi's in training when I already experienced Obi Wan himself? Now if you offer Dark Sith training, maybe.

[DaleDugas]

Intention is not Qi.

Again you both are wrong.

and again I invite anyone to experience first hand what I or my instructor can do.

The proof is in the results.

Sorry that you two seem to be hellbent on badmouthing on someone rather than backup your skills. I see no videos from either of you unknowns.

I invite you to compare skills with me, or any of the instructors near you and then judge.

If not, then your lack of spine speaks volumes.

call it what you will.

Your whining about lineage and what not means nothing.

My lineage does not help me fight. the skills I learned do.

Good luck with your training you are searching for something.

Be well,

[TTEscrima]

We believe in using reality when it comes to fighting.

Hey Dale, I know I already replied to this but, I was so astounded by your comments here I just have to come back and ask you a question.

Since you claim:

TTescrima,

You are plain out wrong about Jiulong Baguazhang and Dr. Painter.

We do not use Qi to control people.

I was wondering why YOU chose to post this particular video of "Captain" Painter on youtube?

YouTube - Using intent in Jiulong Baguazhang

Or perhaps you can explain this one posted by "John" from the Gompa.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=y9cAkxK_Nbo

We believe in using reality when it comes to fighting.

Exactly which of these were you referring to as "using reality when it comes to fighting"?

YouTube - Jiulong Knockouts

YouTube - Li Family Tibetan Snake Boxing