Kung Fu and MMA

[TTEscrima]

These king fu people are funny, what with the fish hooks and eye gouging. Want to go to jail? Then try that shit on the street. It's called attempted murder.

Judo throws can be fatal, ANY choke/strangle is considered use of deadly force, and can be treated as such. A punch can make someone fall down and hit their head and die. As such most anything can cause severe injury or death except perhaps a eyegouge or fish hook.

When you're attacked on the street, it's called self defense, and eye gouges nor fish hooks are attempts to kill, but kicks to the head, chokes, strangles, slams etc ARE (kicks are one of leading causes of death/injuries in unarmed fights). I read this as KF guys using eye gouges etc for self defense, and you are planning joint breaks, chokes, kicks etc for barfights and macho squabbles because that's the only way fighting is called Murder, otherwise its self defense (unless you're the aggressor).

[Tant01]

Unless you're the "defendant"

Judo throws can be fatal, ANY choke/strangle is considered use of deadly force, and can be treated as such. A punch can make someone fall down and hit their head and die. As such most anything can cause severe injury or death except perhaps a eyegouge or fish hook.

When you're attacked on the street, it's called self defense, and eye gouges nor fish hooks are attempts to kill, but kicks to the head, chokes, strangles, slams etc ARE (kicks are one of leading causes of death/injuries in unarmed fights). I read this as KF guys using eye gouges etc for self defense, and you are planning joint breaks, chokes, kicks etc for barfights and macho squabbles because that's the only way fighting is called Murder, otherwise its self defense (unless you're the aggressor).

When the cops get involved you're screwed anyway. Self defense is a LEGAL term to justify using force...

[Ghost]

I could, but the you tube is not the expository of kung fu knowledge. We do not see many martial artist on the You tube. One of my instructors that I had does not have anything on you tube as far as I know, and he could fight very well.

ok but is there no one at all on youtube that can do kung fu?
There are lots of martial artists on youtube.
Doesnt mean your instructor has to be, and takes nothing away from him that he isnt on there.

Or any video footage on the entire internet?
Can you find 1 video that demonstrates the kind of training and so on that you are on about?

[TigerClaw]

When the cops get involved you're screwed anyway. Self defense is a LEGAL term to justify using force...

I am often reffering to life and death struggles. And to do an eye gouge is not always going to kill. It can just hurt like crazy and get the attacker to change his position and let go. One good thing about kung fu as opposed to a MMA style fighting is that even a smaller weaker person can defend against a larger one. A woman can also defends against a murdering rapist very effectively, without having to worry about size and weight etc, or grappling with a larger murdering rapist.

[Ghost]

I am often reffering to life and death struggles. And to do an eye gouge is not always going to kill. It can just hurt like crazy and get the attacker to change his position and let go. One good thing about kung fu as opposed to a MMA style fighting is that even a smaller weaker person can defend against a larger one. A woman can also defends against a murdering rapist very effectively, without having to worry about size and weight etc, or grappling with a larger murdering rapist.

can you explain how?

I think with this discussion it will be interesting if you elaborate on the detail of how these things are done.

[TigerClaw]

Self defense is not murder. I have talked with police officers and they told me that anything that is needed to save your life is allowed. In a situation where a person was attacking me with a knife and he is a large man, I am not going to play games and try not to hurt him. If a man is a drunken large man and attacks a kung fu fighter, there are manny ways to stop the attacker without having to gouge his eyes or use other excessive moves. But if for some reason the attacker is overcoming the Kung Fu man and he is threatening to seriously hurt him, the situation changes. If the kung fu person was a smaller woman and the attacker has no weapon and yet manages to overcome her on the ground (lets say he is some MMA fighter or has studied it) and wants to rape her, she is justified in using clawing and gouging techniques as I understand. And Kung Fu offers her an option in such a situation.

I know to some it may seem that kung fu is deadly and should not be used. But that is why it is for self defense. Also a kick to the groin does not have to kill, or a throat grab or eye gouge. These need not be deadly moves if done right. Even a finger break or arm break is not deadly. The only time I would feel a deadly technique is needed is in a very serious situation where there was no other option. I could imagine many of these.


Think of it this way. A police officer has strict rules about engagement with his firearm. But that does not mean he can never use it. Or even his stick or pepper spray etc, he has to have the right situation to use these. It is always, Hurt rather than mame, and mame rather than kill.

[Tant01]

Salty dogs...

I am often reffering to life and death struggles. And to do an eye gouge is not always going to kill. It can just hurt like crazy and get the attacker to change his position and let go. One good thing about kung fu as opposed to a MMA style fighting is that even a smaller weaker person can defend against a larger one. A woman can also defends against a murdering rapist very effectively, without having to worry about size and weight etc, or grappling with a larger murdering rapist.

"It's all fun and games until someone gets an eye poked out... then it's just FUN!"

LOL I've seen eyeballs hanging by the optic nerves. It doesn't bleed much but when you feel your eyeball hanging against your face you'll be in shock.

Shock can kill in minutes...

I have three daughters. I've taught them all a little bit about the reality of violence and how to avoid and escape harm. Scooping out eyeballs is the last resort. I want massive blood loss and immediate incapication if they ever face a serious threat. To that end I've also given them a knife...

[TTEscrima]

ok but is there no one at all on youtube that can do kung fu?
There are lots of martial artists on youtube.
Doesnt mean your instructor has to be, and takes nothing away from him that he isnt on there.

Or any video footage on the entire internet?
Can you find 1 video that demonstrates the kind of training and so on that you are on about?

YouTube - An Wushu - Xing Yi Quan

[TigerClaw]

can you explain how?

I think with this discussion it will be interesting if you elaborate on the detail of how these things are done.

Ok, the larger man is a side mount of the woman and trying to grab her in the privates and the breast, she takes her hand and tiger claws his eyes pressing in and back with the claws, and the other hand can attack the groin, then reach behind his head with the hand that attacked the groin, and if he has hair she grabs the hair, then she locks his chin with one hand and the back of the head or hair with the other and twist his head, the hand that clawed the face pushes up and away from her, the other hand holding the hair or head she pulls down and towards her chest. She changes her ground position by shifting her hips to the side on the angle she is turning the head, and rolls over clawing twisting his head around and then she can kick and run. Or pull back on the head and strike from behind and then run.

These techniques can be done so fast that the attacker will be taken by surprise, and when his eyes groin and head are being attacked his whole direction changes and his attacking becomes defending.

Like I said before, imagine wrestling a tiger with claws and teeth.

[Ghost]

YouTube - An Wushu - Xing Yi Quan

LMAO, i really really hope thats not what tigerclaw is on about.

[TigerClaw]

"It's all fun and games until someone gets an eye poked out... then it's just FUN!"

LOL I've seen eyeballs hanging by the optic nerves. It doesn't bleed much but when you feel your eyeball hanging against your face you'll be in shock.

Shock can kill in minutes...

I have three daughters. I've taught them all a little bit about the reality of violence and how to avoid and escape harm. Scooping out eyeballs is the last resort. I want massive blood loss and immediate incapication if they ever face a serious threat. To that end I've also given them a knife...

Yes, but that can be dangerous also, and they may not always have a knife, and the attacker may be able to get the knife off them and hurt them more.

[TTEscrima]

Anything more serious comes up, like a home invasion by professional criminals, I have security alarms, guns and loud dogs. And the police are usually actually able to save you when you call them.

So you rely on gadgets and others for your family's security, very impressive.

Do you fly? Go to schools or banks? Ride trains? Go to restaurants? Go to Malls? Work in an office? Go to the Post Office? Nearly all of those prohibit you carrying your gadgets for SD and ALL have been places where there were deadly attacks.

All your toys also fit in your hand so you need to train to access and use them, how much range time do you spend each week? How much time do you spend each week working drills getting the weapon out and on line while under attack (while being punched, kicked and grappled)?

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by Mr. Arieson

"Anything more serious comes up, like a home invasion by professional criminals, I have security alarms, guns and loud dogs. And the police are usually actually able to save you when you call them."

Yes, but they are not always in the security of their home, and they may have attackers anywhere in society. And they may not always have a knife. They also may not be able to call the police either. I could think of many many , many situations where this can happen. In fact if you were able to look at all the rapes in the last 30 years you would find many women in such situations.

[TTEscrima]

LMAO, i really really hope thats not what tigerclaw is on about.

Whats so funny? I guess you think you can kick his ass, Let me know when you're you're ready to take his titles, I want to tape the fight.

2002 Beijing Champion - Bagua Zhang
2003 Chinese National Champion - Xingyi Quan
2004 Chinese National Champion - Baji Quan
2003 Shandong silver medalist - Sanda

[Tant01]

Again... the "reality" seems obvious.

Yes, but that can be dangerous also, and they may not always have a knife, and the attacker may be able to get the knife off them and hurt them more.

One in five officers shot in the line of duty are shot with their own weapon.

Of course it can be "dangerous"! THAT'S the nature of the beast, eh?