MMA sport fighting and Kung Fu combative.

[jubaji]

As if anyone would ever be able to get your punk ass on the floor.

Says the low life, no class punk who has, as far as we know, NEVER been anywhere near any kind of floor whatsoever.

[Uke]

I'm not saying that he has no right to write his opinions, I'm just saying that if he wants people to believe him, well he should stop being a LARPer and actually write something decent.

And that's the part I agree with you about. I'm just saying that at least he writes about martial arts on this MA site, and doesn't just tell silly ass stories that start off with "This one time ... at band camp ..." like jubaji does.

[Ben Grimm]

I'm not saying that he has no right to write his opinions, I'm just saying that if he wants people to believe him, well he should stop being a LARPer and actually write something decent.

[Uke]

Which you have, as far as we know, never done in any way in any context under any circumstances, theory boy.

As if anyone would ever be able to get your punk ass on the floor. If it aint a wrasslin' match with grabage cans, folding chairs and tables you won't pretend fight with anyone.

[Uke]

All I'm saying is actions speak louder than words.

All I'm saying is apply that same scrutiny across the board. And since there are no actions on a forum, what you write represents who you are.

I'd prefer a LARP'er who is polite to a LURKER who does nothing but disrupt. Do you feel differently?

Its easy to pick on someone who won't fight back like TC, but everyone turns a blind eye to the forum idiot who has ruined more good debate than any other poster since 2003.

This is by no means an endorsement of what TC writes, but only of his right to write it. Especially in light of the fact that he contributes loads more than jubaji.

[jubaji]

The only way to prove anything about combat is to get on the floor and prove it.

Which you have, as far as we know, never done in any way in any context under any circumstances, theory boy.

[Ben Grimm]

All I'm saying is actions speak louder than words.

[Uke]

He's an Internet Tough Guy. He'll never prove anything except with his useless dark snakey videos.

Nobody here is proving anything. Don't get it confused for a second. The only way to prove anything about combat is to get on the floor and prove it. We come here to discuss and learn, not prove.

And as I said, at least TC actually writes about the martial arts unlike some people who only come here looking for attention.

Like you said Ben, he may be wrong or inaccurate about his ideas, but every post he writes is more of a contribution than what jubaji does here. Even if people used TC's posts as what not to do, he still brings something to light in regards to MA. He doesn't avoid his ideas about technique, concept and philosophy.

TigerClaw ain't the one hiding the chickenshit. Nor is he the one who deserves to be derided. For as much as some of you might think it, TC is hardly the biggest waste of time posting here.

[Ben Grimm]

He's an Internet Tough Guy. He'll never prove anything except with his useless dark snakey videos.

[sunwukung]

The You tube, or the internet in general does not have everything. What you see on You tube is a minute sample of some sport fighting Kung Fu. I say again, a minute sample.

Granted, but it's a pretty good resource - it's pretty effective for tracking down footage from many eras. You can see many, many examples of MMA in action, but as you point out - virtually none of "real kung fu".

Some of the best kung fu fighters you will never even see , let alone watch them in a real fight on a video.

Why do you think that is? Or is it that it does show "real kung fu" - but that in practice real kung fu is not as you describe it? What I'm trying to point out to you is that while the techniques you posted in post #136 are all perfectly valid, it's important to see them executed outside of a drill with a compliant drill partner, if not in a real fight then at least in competition (since they do not appear to be particularly fatal).

By the way the Kung Fu masters of the past were able to fight the way they taught others as well.And as I said, I fight in form and it works great for me.

And as I said, while these statements may well be true, without corroboration they are just that - statements, and as such lacking in any real value.

What did you think of the clips. I actually thought the Baji clip was pretty good.

[jubaji]

I don't believe for a second that a high moral integrity and concern for others is a bad principle.

Not at all. Also a good place to hide your chickenshit while you talk nonsense.

It's a chickenshit LARPer principle and probably the only reason you are still here to annoy people to this day.

I don't believe for a second that a high moral integrity and concern for others is a bad principle. You can call it weak or whatever, but its not. if love of my neighbour causes some to be annoyed, well........, what can we say about that, it's their problem.

I searched a lot of different pages for the videos I posted a link to, from old clips of traditional KF lei tai fights to more modern tournaments. In none of them do the practitioners manage to move in form for any real length of time. Perhaps that's bad luck that no such fight has ever been caught on tape, but as it stands I'm inclined to believe that this level of perfection is only possible when practising form alone or in a pre-rehearsed drill. It's this disconnection between theory and practice that (in part) leads to the incredulous cries from the gallery when you impart your anecdotes of kung fu perfection.

The You tube, or the internet in general does not have everything. What you see on You tube is a minute sample of some sport fighting Kung Fu. I say again, a minute sample.

Some of the best kung fu fighters you will never even see , let alone watch them in a real fight on a video.

By the way the Kung Fu masters of the past were able to fight the way they taught others as well.

And as I said, I fight in form and it works great for me.

[sunwukung]

But in combat there is no gloves, no ref to stop the combative techniques, no whistle blowing, no ring to get pushed out of, no head gear etc. When I speak of form fighting it is very different from these.

It's not uncommon for an MMA bout to culminate in a KO or a submission. Surely even within the remit of sport MMA there are KF practitioners that could achieve either of these end results using the thousands of techniques you referred to earlier?

If a person does not perfect their fighting style they will have great troubles moving in stances and form and with any technique.

I searched a lot of different pages for the videos I posted a link to, from old clips of traditional KF lei tai fights to more modern tournaments. In none of them do the practitioners manage to move in form for any real length of time. Perhaps that's bad luck that no such fight has ever been caught on tape, but as it stands I'm inclined to believe that this level of perfection is only possible when practising form alone or in a pre-rehearsed drill. It's this disconnection between theory and practice that (in part) leads to the incredulous cries from the gallery when you impart your anecdotes of kung fu perfection.

Two of the clips are of traditional kung fu styles from mainland China, and I assume by two practitioners that have the respect of their schools in order to be put forward for the bout. Yet they were scrappy, messy affairs. There are many more "traditional" bouts that demonstrate this point. Is there any reason why none of the clips show this 'precision' kung fu you talk about?

Like I have said, the fights I have had I have used form and technique in and it worked with almost textbook precision.

As interesting as these anecdotes are, they're not really adding much to the debate without video evidence that they went as cleanly as you believe.

[jubaji]

It's a chickenshit LARPer principle and probably the only reason you are still here to annoy people to this day.